Russia invades Ukraine

[undercoverbrother]

Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war.

[CroFlames]

They make mention of Leopards. What about the Abrams tanks?

It would be awesome to see the Abrams do what it was born to do - destroy the Red enemy.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

They make mention of Leopards. What about the Abrams tanks?

It would be awesome to see the Abrams do what it was born to do - destroy the Red enemy.

I bet they sit on the Abrams.

Maybe even keep them to respond to a Belarussian threat in the north.

Utilizing Leo's makes smart supply management sense.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by nik-

Steamroll 'em

We all want this but the problem is Putin will go full scale nuts if this happens. he'll send a 100 drones into Kyiv to overwhelm the defense systems with high altitude bombers over top to flatten the city, if that happens what does the west do?

Only way out of this nightmare is a well placed bullet to Putin's head

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

We all want this but the problem is Putin will go full scale nuts if this happens. he'll send a 100 drones into Kyiv to overwhelm the defense systems with high altitude bombers over top to flatten the city, if that happens what does the west do?

Only way out of this nightmare is a well placed bullet to Putin's head

That's the thing I worry about as well. I don't doubt Ukraine's bravery, resilience, or capabilities. What I worry about is that Putin/Russia goes totally ape #### on Ukraine's civilian population. I fear that many people under estimate just how bad things could get.

Hopefully if Ukraine makes up a lot of ground and the turmoil in Russia escalates, it causes a regime change in Russia somehow. Ukraine could chase the whole Russian army back into Russia, and it wouldn't end the war. Putin will just continue hitting them from the other side.

It's really a waiting game on both sides. Ukraine and the West wait for Putin to die or somehow get removed from office, and hopefully the next person stops the war. Russia is waiting for economic and political will to decline in the West. Until one of these things happen, I think it will just be a continuous back and forth.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

We all want this but the problem is Putin will go full scale nuts if this happens. he'll send a 100 drones into Kyiv to overwhelm the defense systems with high altitude bombers over top to flatten the city, if that happens what does the west do?

Only way out of this nightmare is a well placed bullet to Putin's head

If they had the ability to overwhelm Ukraine's defenses they would have done it. In what dimension of logic would they be holding anything back at this point?

[burn_this_city]

If Russia could flatten Kyiv they would have by now. The perception that Russia isn't doing everything they could is a bit weird at this point. They are limited only by their internal resources, the claim they're fighting with one hand tied is grasping at straws.

I'm also fairly skeptical that even Putin's demise would change anything. This isn't just Putin, it's a majority of Russians. They've grown up believing the imperialist Russia strong and virtuous narrative. Actual opposition to the war is low 20-25% range, even from the depoliticized middle.

Russians seem acutely aware that losing the war is potentially worse than the flood of zinc coffins they've already seen. Even the "liberals" don't want the country to lose, since its potential fragmentation would be worse for them.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

We all want this but the problem is Putin will go full scale nuts if this happens. he'll send a 100 drones into Kyiv to overwhelm the defense systems with high altitude bombers over top to flatten the city, if that happens what does the west do?



Only way out of this nightmare is a well placed bullet to Putin's head

I guess we'll wait and see. I wonder why Putin has been holding back on overwhelming the air defenses of Kyiv thus far? 4d chess?

The only thing he hasn't done in Ukraine is nukes, at this point I'd question both their reliability and the effectiveness of whatever delivery system is used. If patriots can take down a Kinzhal and all...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If Russia could flatten Kyiv they would have by now. The perception that Russia isn't doing everything they could is a bit weird at this point. They are limited only by their internal resources, the claim they're fighting with one hand tied is grasping at straws.

I'm also fairly skeptical that even Putin's demise would change anything. This isn't just Putin, it's a majority of Russians. They've grown up believing the imperialist Russia strong and virtuous narrative. Actual opposition to the war is low 20-25% range, even from the depoliticized middle.

Russians seem acutely aware that losing the war is potentially worse than the flood of zinc coffins they've already seen. Even the "liberals" don't want the country to lose, since its potential fragmentation would be worse for them.

I am not convinced that the they are bluffing with the nuclear threat though. This is a culture that historically has had no problem using scorched earth and sacrificing tens of millions of their own civilians in previous wars. I could see them using tactical nuclear weapons on Ukrainian cities eventually. From their perspective, mutually assured destruction is preferable than seeing Russia defeated.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am not convinced that the they are bluffing with the nuclear threat though. This is a culture that historically has had no problem using scorched earth and sacrificing tens of millions of their own civilians in previous wars. I could see them using tactical nuclear weapons on Ukrainian cities eventually. From their perspective, mutually assured destruction is preferable than seeing Russia defeated.

These are guys who spent the last 25 years enriching themselves and living the good life. Putin was so deathly afraid of covid he lived in a bubble for 3 years. The idea they'll suicide seems unlikely, they will fight like hell then try to wriggle out of justice by fleeing.

[nik-]

If they use nukes they might as well just use them on themselves.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am not convinced that the they are bluffing with the nuclear threat though. This is a culture that historically has had no problem using scorched earth and sacrificing tens of millions of their own civilians in previous wars. I could see them using tactical nuclear weapons on Ukrainian cities eventually. From their perspective, mutually assured destruction is preferable than seeing Russia defeated.

They are still a rational player. I mean if they weren’t, nuclear holocaust would have happened a year ago.

I maintain that they haven’t used them yet, so they won’t ever.

They can end all the death and destruction to Russians by simply leaving Ukraine. They will pull out of Ukraine before they murder-suicide the world.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Firebot

According to Ukraine officials, the offensive is officially underway and Russian Telegram Rybar stating that Ukraine is using Leopard tanks in their offensives.

All sorts of mayhem on Twitter right now, even Kaliningrad.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665718331679145987

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665742066264027139

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665742977845567488

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665504364289740800

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665684271787397123

Only one Russian Telegram channel so far saying they saw a Leopard and it's been parroted. Sounds more like a probing operation than a full scale operation at this point

[Rutuu]

Article out this morning that the Aussies are looking into pathways to send their 41 recently retired f18 hornets to Ukraine.

Estimates are they'd be fighting ready in 4months.

[driveway]

Ukraine: The Latest from the Telegraph being very, very hesitant to describe the news as the beginning of an offensive. With lots of caveats and "we simply don't knows" they speculate we're seeing reconnaissance-in-force as part of continuing shaping operations.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Only one Russian Telegram channel so far saying they saw a Leopard and it's been parroted. Sounds more like a probing operation than a full scale operation at this point

Today (June 6 in Ukraine) the anniversary of D-Day.

Ukraine is currently attacking Calais

Hint Hint

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665800958662549504

It really can't be spelled out more literally.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Today (June 6 in Ukraine) the anniversary of D-Day.



Ukraine is currently attacking Calais



Hint Hint

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665800958662549504



It really can't be spelled out more literally.

I'm not saying this isn't the counteroffensive, just that there's only one Russian blogger saying they've seen a leopard and a video tagged as a Leopard that turned out to be an older French AMX-10. The only known tank battle was small and only consisted of a few tanks and armored vehicles.

This may well mark the beginning, but what's been described so far isn't more than a bunch of small raids along the front with none of the known brigades or Western weapons that were being held back. There's clearly some change in initiative here, but this isn't the big thrust

[burn_this_city]

This isn't good for folks on the southern bank in Kherson. The Russians have maintained control over the dam and were draining the reservoir over the last few months.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1665909781008203776

[burn_this_city]

The reservoir also supplied cooling water to the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, so this has the potential to be a massive disaster.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

That's inhuman. Who could order such a thing against innocent civilians?
All this bloodshed and death , and I am still shocked at the depths people will sink.