[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If someone thought the Flames should get a 1st, 2nd and a prospect for Tanev then they have only their unrealistic expectations to blame.

Tanev is a solid veteran defensive top 4 Dman, but he doesn't bring any offense to the table. And as a 34 year old rental, expectations like that were way out to lunch. He's got one goal this year and a career high of 28 points. This is not the type of rental teams usually break open the vault for.

Chiarot in 2022 going from MTL to FLA is the only real outlier there that I can think of.

David Savard also got a 1st, Orlov+Hathaway got a 1st+2nd+3rd. The firsts all ended up very late though. Pretty sure those guys and Orlov were all younger and built like brick ####houses, so there was probably a bit more confidence that they will hold up better through a long run (whereas you'll have to shoot Tanev to keep him out of the lineup, but he might be a shell of himself by May)

Alec Martinez for two 2nds is another similar to this.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I don't claim conspiracy or bias, because it's just an opinion. But if you've seen in the past, even with better draft years, the better players have received a haul. So in that regard, for the best D-man available he didn't bring back much. I don't think that's on Conroy, but rather the market suddenly taking a turn for the worse for an unknown reason. We'll see what other guys go for but the return was underwhelming when you consider the impact Tanev can have.

I think there's a little bit more to it. Tanev said that he and the Flames discussed at training camp that he wanted to go to a contender. Tanev approached them recently and revisited that conversation. I do believe there were other options out there and some of them might have been a little bit better for example the leafs, but Tanev wanted to go to a team that had a chance to win the cup because he' said he is not going to have many opportunities left; So Dallas was probably a good trading partner in this regard. This would explain why we didn't hear about more options out there because there was probably only a select few teams that he wanted to go to. Conroy honored that, probably because he respects the player and what Tanev has contributed to the Flames. Tanev also said in the off season if the Flames wanted him back he would consider it. If he came back to the Flames that would be a win-win because he would be an excellent mentor.

Maybe the Flames will be ready to do some damage in the playoffs by then.

It's understandable some people are upset about the return but this sounds like it was a conversation between the player and management and they tried to find a fit. New Jersey and Dallas all worked together to make it happen probably because they wanted to give Tanev that opportunity.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I read a rumour that it was two teams- Ceci from Edmonton, and Johansen from Colorado. It was from dude called “fiery breadman”, so major grain of salt.

couldn't you just get a good pick to take on those contracts without throwing in Chris Tanev?

[Enoch Root]

These types of deals (veteran UFA for picks and prospects) always look good for the buyer up front, because they are getting the best player in the deal (by far), and the other side is getting magic beans.

But a year, 2, 5 years later, the magic beans keep growing, and all the buyers had was that spring a few years ago where they may or may not have won the cup.

The most likely scenario: DAL doesn't win the cup, and in a couple years this trade is a big win for the Flames.

Less likely scenario: DAL wins the cup and this is looked as as a great trade for both teams.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I read a rumour that it was two teams- Ceci from Edmonton, and Johansen from Colorado. It was from dude called “fiery breadman”, so major grain of salt.

Major grain of salt as you say.

Ceci's contract wouldn't bother me in the least to get that Oilers first, which should be a decent pick.

Would you trade the package we just got for their first and Ceci? I think I would. A late second and a B+ prospect won't get you into the first round at the draft.

[Enoch Root]

don't forget to include the value of the cap that Ceci would eat up

not enough to deal with the Oilers (not even close)

[dino7c]

Stars have maybe a 5-8% chance of winning the cup but they are A++++++
in a couple months they will have nothing to show for this deal

If someone was willing to part with a first they would have done it in the last few weeks

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Stars have maybe a 5-8% chance of winning the cup but they are A++++++
in a couple months they will have nothing to show for this deal

If someone was willing to part with a first they would have done it in the last few weeks

Sounds like the oilers were (maybe), but the Flames said no anyways.

Also Conroy promised Tanev he would send him to a contender.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

don't forget to include the value of the cap that Ceci would eat up

not enough to deal with the Oilers (not even close)

Ceci has only one more year after this at $3,250,000. I'd eat that for a first-round pick, even from Edmonton. But I wouldn't send a 2nd and Gru the other way. Maybe a 5th and a couple of Minions.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Sounds like the oilers were, but the Flames said no anyways.

Also Conroy promised Tanev he would send him to a contender.

*if they took a bad contract back, that is a totally different thing

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by dino7c

*if they took a bad contract back, that is a totally different thing

True.... true.

Taking back $$ and a player contaminated with oiler stink is a big ask.

[memphusk]

It really looks like the league is changing its ways. Leaning towards an NFL style trade deadline. Spending young assets is hurtful more than ever if you don't win it all.

[bax]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who said he was like first? i heard some people say between a first by itself and a second plus Gru, the latter was better.

There was a tweet posted earlier quoting Jeff Marek stating that the Flames valued Grushnikov more than a late 202; first round pick. That’s what started this whole thing.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I go back to the Manson deal.
Similar players.
Nearly identical return including how late the 2nd tracks to be:

2022-Mar-14 Traded from Anaheim Ducks to Colorado Avalanche for Drew Helleson and round 2 pick in the 2023 draft (Carey Terrance - 59th overall)

Another similar comparable is Alec Martinez. Dealt to VGK for two 2nds.

Edit: I see powderjunkie drew the same comparison

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I don’t think there’s any pro-Oiler anti-Flame conspiracy going on here, the trade just isn’t very good for the Flames. Given the amount of retention and the quality of the player, the Stars paid very little here.

Maybe this Russian kid turns out to be the next Tanev or Regehr, but the people who have watched him and do this for a living seem to think he more likely tops out as Adam Pardy or Matt Pelech. So I’m not going to get my hopes up on that.

You misspelled Adam Pelech. That's probably a good projection for Grushnikov. I think he'll be quite a bit better than either of the two players you mentioned, especially in reading some details about his game from various scouting reports and interviews.

Solid, 2nd pairing, defensive d-man in a few years. At worst, a very good 3rd pairing d-man, not a cup of coffee kind of guy.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Sounds like the oilers were (maybe), but the Flames said no anyways.

Also Conroy promised Tanev he would send him to a contender.

Why would a non contender want to trade for Tanev? Let alone paying much for him

That was a non issue for the most part

[Toonage]

Maybe already brought up but it'd be fun to know what Vancouver was going to add to the Lindholm deal when it was thought Tanev might be involved. Calgary decided not to do it as they thought they could get a 1st for Tanev. That didn't happen, so I'd be curious to know what could have been there.

[Bingo]

By all reports the Flames are really high on Grushnikov.

They pushed for him to be included, and may have moved off the 1st price to get him in a deal with a second.

I'm all about convicted scouting staffs.

Now lets see where it goes.

But people upset at a 2nd, a recent 2nd and a conditional when the goal posts were 2nd and 1st are really over reacting.

Pretty sure a 2nd and some pocket lint would be between the goal posts. Grushnikov likely worth more than pocket lint.

[Toonage]

Marek has suggested a few times now that a scout (or scouts) have told him they see some Radko Gudas in this kid's game.

Works for me!

[PeteMoss]

Most 'newer' writers trend towards analytics and most analytics will not be fans of defensive defensemen.

Until they get to the NHL and you can get more detailed information - it can be hard to get the metrics to tell the difference between a Tanev and random plug defenseman who never makes it. In general - more points = more likely to make it. But clearly there is a difference between a Tanev and the other guys who put up the same low point total but are not nearly the same player.