Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I do realize they pissed away 2 picks on Giroux and Charoit in horrible trades that got them a single series win. I just don’t get why they would be somehow still a top team with Huberdeau and Weegar than with Tkachuk? They couldn’t run it back as they couldn’t afford Marchment, Giroux or Chariot and Duclair was out.

I am not buying the point that the 2 players out are making them better than Boston, Toronto or Tampa this year. Running it back wasn’t an option they were losing multiple players last offseason and would have been hard pressed to keep the 2 players they traded to us beyond their contracts this year.

Florida is struggling this year but it has nothing to do with Tkachuk. The Flames are also struggling and a significant reason is due to Huberdeau not being anything close to a superstar.

We will disagree but there is nothing compelling in your argument as to why one more year with Huberdeau and Weegar would have Florida in a better spot than having Tkachuk does. Future year 1sts for rentals are among the worst moves a GM can make. Also firing a coach that helps a team win the Presidents trophy and replacing him with the coach with the most losses in the history of the NHL was another blunder. Trading for a franchise winger when he is 24 was not a bad move.

I find nothing compelling about your argument...the Panthers were the top team in the NHL...now they aren't even in the top half.

I think there would be some different tunes being sung if the Flames were in 11th place with no first round pick until 2026. Even if they had a 25 year old playing well

Barkov is 28 in September...so trade him in 2 years because 30 is way too old? Eventually you have to try and win...half win now moves and half win later moves might equal win never.

Like I said, if Tkachuk leads them to the promised land feel free to bump this

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I find nothing compelling about your argument...the Panthers were the top team in the NHL...now they aren't even in the top half.

I think there would be some different tunes being sung if the Flames were in 11th place with no first round pick until 2026. Even if they had a 25 year old playing well

Barkov is 28 in September...so trade him in 2 years because 30 is way too old? Eventually you have to try and win...half win now moves and half win later moves might equal win never.

Like I said, if Tkachuk leads them to the promised land feel free to bump this

So you just skim past the comments about hiring the most overrated coach in The league by giving the fact that his former team went from the bubble to first in the west with little roster turnover this past year and his new team went from 1st to the bubble? They also lost 3 other top 6 forwards from last year (not including Huberdeau) and a top 4 Dman because of the cap and injury.

The Flames could very well be in a spot where they have a single 1st between 22-24 because they added Toffoli and paid another team to dump Monahan so they could sign Kadri.

Barkov is entering year 4 of his deal when he turns 30 not year 1 like Hubdereau. Both he and Tkachuk expire before they are 35. What do you mean half is win now and half is win later? They clearly got the best player in the deal now and later as Tkachuk is vastly superior to Huberdeau. Weegar is a tough loss but he is a number 4 Dman he has not shown to be a top pairing guy in his time here. You seem to have trouble with the rental moves they made and keep leaning on that where they gave up unprotected 1sts but trading that third protected 1st for 8 years of a franchise winger is the straw that breaks the camel’s back?

[FanIn80]

I thought this trade was a blowout for us when it happened, but now - half a season later - I'm feeling like Zito gave up pending UFA Weegar with a prospect and a first just to convert pending 29 year-old $10M+ UFA Huberdeau into 24 year-old Tkachuk locked up for 8 years at $9.5M. When I look at it that way, it's not such a blowout anymore. I mean, it was still an act of wizardry for Tree to get what he did for a guy who everyone know didn't want to play here, I'm just saying that I get why Zito did it now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I would rather have Tkachuk than Huberdeau... even if it means not having Weegar and a first.

[Strange Brew]

You have three things in play:
The trade
What the Flames did with the first
The contracts given to Huberdeau and Weegar

The trade itself was still pretty good IMO

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You have three things in play:
The trade
What the Flames did with the first
The contracts given to Huberdeau and Weegar

The trade itself was still pretty good IMO

Thing is as well, there are multiple transactions (including what they did n with the first) that all have to be combined in consideration. Losing Gaudreau as a UFA (I still think of Huberdeau as Gaudreau’s replacement, not Tkachuk’s). Tkachuk who was leaving anyway for four pieces, being two high end players, plus a pick and a prospect. Monahan and that pick for space for Kadri.

After the trades, the signings - I recall the huge pressure on this forum for there to be deals. And expectations that each would be higher. I still don’t think those deals are out of line. If Huberdeau is overpaid, so is Gaudreau so that’s a wash for me. And Weegar’s contract is fine.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I thought this trade was a blowout for us when it happened, but now - half a season later - I'm feeling like Zito gave up pending UFA Weegar with a prospect and a first just to convert pending 29 year-old $10M+ UFA Huberdeau into 24 year-old Tkachuk locked up for 8 years at $9.5M. When I look at it that way, it's not such a blowout anymore. I mean, it was still an act of wizardry for Tree to get what he did for a guy who everyone know didn't want to play here, I'm just saying that I get why Zito did it now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I would rather have Tkachuk than Huberdeau... even if it means not having Weegar and a first.

It was wizardry by Tre to pull off that trade given the circumstances. Still, it seemed like a win-win if Tkachuk panned out the way Florida expected. I didn't think Tkachuk would be the guy Florida expected, so I thought this was possibly just a Flames win, but Tkachuk clearly has been what they expected. I didn't have much sense of Huberdeau or Weegar at the time of the trade, but Huberdeau has been a disappointment in my opinion.

All in all, Tre made a good trade, but at this point in the season I would be happier had he traded Huberdeau and Weegar for picks and gone into full rebuild. The team hasn't been fun to watch, and my expectations aren't high for them.

I also think a smart and ambitious guy would recognize this as an ideal time to move on from being the Flames' GM. He made great moves in the summer, but the team is locked into what could be an ugly few years ahead. Treliving's contract expiration is happening at an ideal time to take that good reputation and walk away from what has potential to turn into a mess and into something new that's a level up.

[tony-soprano]

[Flamesfan05]

The Tkachuk trade was good

What Treliving did with it after may turn out to be a long term disaster

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The Tkachuk trade was good

What Treliving did with it after may turn out to be a long term disaster

This. He could have let Huby play out the year, explore an extension and flip him for a first at the deadline if the deal wasn't there.

In saying that, I was firmly in the sign him before the season started camp. And, I still think he's a bonafide star.

Might just take a new head coach to bring the star back out.

I think Weegar is fine.

[Vinny01]

The only way the Flames realistically would have flipped Huberdeau and Weegar was if they were far out of the race. More than likely they would have held onto both and risked losing them for nothing if they didn’t take the route to sign both to extensions in the offseason

[Flamesfan05]

The way Huberdeau is playing, I doubt too many teams would want to offer him 10M or 8 yrs if he is a FA

But with a contract on the line, maybe he’d play much better

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So you just skim past the comments about hiring the most overrated coach in The league by giving the fact that his former team went from the bubble to first in the west with little roster turnover this past year and his new team went from 1st to the bubble? They also lost 3 other top 6 forwards from last year (not including Huberdeau) and a top 4 Dman because of the cap and injury.

The Flames could very well be in a spot where they have a single 1st between 22-24 because they added Toffoli and paid another team to dump Monahan so they could sign Kadri.

Barkov is entering year 4 of his deal when he turns 30 not year 1 like Hubdereau. Both he and Tkachuk expire before they are 35. What do you mean half is win now and half is win later? They clearly got the best player in the deal now and later as Tkachuk is vastly superior to Huberdeau. Weegar is a tough loss but he is a number 4 Dman he has not shown to be a top pairing guy in his time here. You seem to have trouble with the rental moves they made and keep leaning on that where they gave up unprotected 1sts but trading that third protected 1st for 8 years of a franchise winger is the straw that breaks the camel’s back?

If the Flames lose their own pick to Montreal they keep the Florida pick. They are not going 3 years without a first like the Panthers.

The coach is irrelevant and a pretty poor excuse, they aren't gonna fire him anyway

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If the Flames lose their own pick to Montreal they keep the Florida pick. They are not going 3 years without a first like the Panthers.

The coach is irrelevant and a pretty poor excuse, they aren't gonna fire him anyway

How is the coach a poor excuse? Maurice has lost more than any coach in the league history. Look at the team he just left and how they are 1st in the west with minimal roster turnover.

You are the one that said they should go for it yet co tinie to being up the lack of future 1sts they dealt when they went for it last year.

Tkachuk is the best player in the deal now and moving forward. He was the best player last year as well as he finished 7pts back of Huberdeau but with a much stronger second half and defensive metrics. Florida made the deal now and for the future to get a franchise winger to pair with their franchise center. Neither team that made the deal is having the same luck they did last year but from the trade perspective Florida has a bargain co tract where the Flames appear to have at least 1 albatross.

They call Tkachuk a unicorn for a reason. He is truly a rare breed when it comes to his ability to get under opponents skin and his ability to produce offense. This situation came up where a player like that was available and Florida was on the short list of destinations. They had 2 players several years older who they would struggle to re-sign both in a years time. Due to their age and contract situations they added an average prospect and protected 1st to secure a franchise player.

I have called this trade a win-win since it was made. Looks to be a clear win for Florida and hopefully the Flames will see improvements from the pieces they acquired. When you look at Florida’s struggles it has nothing to do with Tkachuk. When you look at Calgary’s struggles you can conclude they are not getting near enough from Huberdeau.

Look at the trade in isolation Florida got the best and youngest player who is on by far the best contract of the 3 key players dealt.

[dino7c]

If you must compare Flames traded one year of Tkachuk and were forced to do so

You don't need to type out a novel every time...like I said I think Florida should have continued with win now mode as they were close and already gave up a ton of picks. Disagree if you like. Let's see if they get back to being a top NHL contender. If not they blew their chance IMO.

[Roof-Daddy]

Florida should have just left Brunette as the coach.

Did he not want the head coaching gig or something? Like, WTF?

It makes no sense. The guy takes over the team early and goes 51-18-6 and they don't bring him back and instead replace him with the most over rated coach the NHL has ever seen?

I know they wanted more than just the second round after winning the Presidents trophy, but they also won their first playoff round since 1996 lol

Pure idiocy.

[GioforPM]

The trade was Tkachuk and Monahan for Huberdeau, Weegar, Kadri and Schwindt.

Still a good deal.

[Vinny01]

Huberdeau and Weegar do not make that team a contender they got the best player in the deal NOW and moving forward. Florida is in win now mode so is Calgary and both teams are struggling.

Ignore all other facts and believe this deal is what ruined Florida.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The trade was Tkachuk and Monahan for Huberdeau, Weegar, Kadri and Schwindt.

Still a good deal.

Not exactly because it could easily be another pick going to the Habs instead of the Florida pick.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If you must compare Flames traded one year of Tkachuk and were forced to do so

You don't need to type out a novel every time...like I said I think Florida should have continued with win now mode as they were close and already gave up a ton of picks. Disagree if you like. Let's see if they get back to being a top NHL contender. If not they blew their chance IMO.

Well you are wrong that they traded 1 year of Tkachuk because the 8 year extension was part of the deal and was a sign and trade. I said it was a win-win trade. Florida is still in win now mode. They got the best player in the deal now and moving forward. Calgary is also in win now mode which is why they pursed this deal that gave them the best veterans being offered. Neither team is living up to the preseason hype but both want to win now

[JohnnyB]

There's no way that trading Tkachuk was anything but the right thing to do, and I don't think anyone could really dispute that the return was great given the circumstances. At this point, Florida looks like the winner from a zero-sum perspective, but both teams made good moves according to their own needs in that exchange.

The biggest winner was actually Tkachuk. I would love to be his age, with that contract, living in Miami and playing hockey for a living. Sounds great.