The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Inferno]

The day Treliving realizes hiring Goofus was a mistake and makes the appropriate change will be a good day.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Sadly garbage posts lead to more garbage posts
Do you think the post he was replying to was any better? It didn’t exactly offer any deep insight or rationale perspective
Garbage in garbage out

So take the high road and don't add more garbage to the pile. Not a difficult concept is it as litter is litter.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So take the high road and don't add more garbage to the pile. Not a difficult concept is it as litter is litter.

Sure but that falls to people on both sides of the debate. If people are going to call out the trash call it out on both sides not just the stuff they disagree with

[simonarea]

Originally Posted by 868904

Brodie was a dominant defenceman with a positive plus minus before GG took over and forced him to the left side. Since that move he has been turnover prone and his plus minus had been deep in negative territory.

Someone in management or the coaching staff has to tell GG about this. He has to give Brodie a try on the right side and see if he plays better.

The other change is also taking him away from Gio. I understand that they want to shelter Hamilton by pairing him with Gio but even with him now, Hamilton still sucks. It's time to try Brodano again. Trade Hamilton for big package that includes a solid left side defenceman (doesn't have to be a guy who generates a lot of offense, just get a guy who plays a simple game and doesn't get scored on).

Even if not Brodano then put him back with Stone, he played at least a little better. Not that I think Hamonic has been bad, I think he's really picked up his game sine coming back, Brodie is the one who has been dragging him down.

I’d rather trade Gio and Brodie before Hamilton

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

Yes, GG controls the minds of the defensemen and when they practice he tells them to play like crap.

Cmon man, use some logic.

This post indicates that the coach serves no purpose.

If the defence is not playing up to their potential, that's on him. His very purpose is to have the players performing to the best of their abilities. If he can't do it, then there's someone else who can. This is not an impossible task.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Joborule

This post indicates that the coach serves no purpose.

If the defence is not playing up to their potential, that's on him. His very purpose is to have the players performing to the best of their abilities. If he can't do it, then there's someone else who can. This is not an impossible task.

Agree, just look at Vegas, that's an expansion team everyone expect to be last. And yet they are wining and wining, the coaches have that team playing out of their mind. Their GG clearly better than our GG

[Racki]

There's plenty of smart people that will defend Gulutzan for a multitude of reasons and plenty of them make sense. He's a bright, personable, energetic guy. Personally, I can't help but feel dejected by the entire situation. i just don't think he has the ability to help prepare this group to play. This team too often looks unprepared, disjointed and disinterested. When was the last time they absolutely outworked and opponent? The talent on paper is not showing up on the ice.

Since his arrival young, talented players like Bennett and Brodie have taken massive steps backwards and the "best top 6 in the league" has looked horrible. If not for superb goaltending to start this season we are somewhere between Edmonton and Buffalo in the standings.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Agree, just look at Vegas, that's an expansion team everyone expect to be last. And yet they are wining and wining, the coaches have that team playing out of their mind. Their GG clearly better than our GG

I've posted this before but it seems appropriate for this post.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Racki

There's plenty of smart people that will defend Gulutzan for a multitude of reasons and plenty of them make sense. He's a bright, personable, energetic guy. Personally, I can't help but feel dejected by the entire situation. i just don't think he has the ability to help prepare this group to play. This team too often looks unprepared, disjointed and disinterested. When was the last time they absolutely outworked and opponent? The talent on paper is not showing up on the ice.

Since his arrival young, talented players like Bennett and Brodie have taken massive steps backwards and the "best top 6 in the league" has looked horrible. If not for superb goaltending to start this season we are somewhere between Edmonton and Buffalo in the standings.

2 games ago in Washington.

Man, people have really short memories.

[bax]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

First of all they are not ****. They are two games removed from putting on an absolute defensive clinic on a very long road trip. They are one game removed from having, on average, a very good game especially by our whipping boy pairing of Brodie-Hamonic (before Brodie lost the puck in what any sane person would identify as nothing other than bad luck). The issue in the Columbus game was that our forwards could not generate offense against an elite blue line puttiv on a defensive clinic of their own. In the last four they had one legitimately bad game @ Dallas, magnified by facing a hard forehecking team with elite finishers.

Second GG may not deserve the blame for their defensive play but he sure as hell needs to be identified as the cause of their offensive regression, which has resulted in the forwards (outside of one Midas Touch line) being absolutely underwhelming. Last night aside, it is usually a lot easier to simplify your defensive game with a lead and the best way to get a lead is to contribute offensively. This team is not built to score three on five yet our Brent Sutter offense does exactly that. Good offenses play a five man cycle, we do not. We used to, under Hartley, but Treliving was so intent on gettig the anti-Hartley that Gulutzan came an neutered a defense core that should consistently be top 5 in point production with the Preds, Blues, and Lightning. The only points our D picks up under Gulutzan are ticky tack assists for Brodie on the PP. And those are literally frustrating plays where Brodie needs to shoot.

What we needed was a middle ground between Hartley and Brent Sutter. A coach who would:

- Give the defense a green light to attack the middle and pinch aggressively, while making sure our F3s were always sharp (Hartley)
- Force the centermen to play deeper in the defensive zone (B.Sutter/Gulutzan)
- Give the wingers the green light to go early if they saw an opportunity (Hartley)
- Force the skater to play an aggressive defensive game in the neutral zone (B.Sutter, supposed to be Gulutzan, but I am skeptical as they have played the same loose gaps under him they did under Hartley, except without the benefits those loose gaps afforded Bob in always having guys in shot blocking position because we don't block shots anymore)
- Shorten his bench when needed (Hartley)
- Be willing to make the tough decision on an underwhelming vet like Versteeg, Brouwer, or Bartkowski sooner than later (Hartley)
- Be willing to make the tough decision on playing an underwhelming prospect aged player like Kulak, Bennett, Andersson, Familton, Jankowski (Hartley)

I don't believe I am asking for the impossible, as I have seen this sort of mix I describe succeed, recently under the Mike Sullivan Penguins and Lindy Ruff's version of the Stars that were a Lehtonen collapse away from the WCF. There were things that structurally needed changing, and there were things that, independent of those others, needed to be kept the same. Hartley was really, really close to the right coach for this group except for how he handled certain situations without the puck.

But Tre wanted the other extreme from Bob. It resulted in a team that plays a very forward-scoring dependent style, except we don't have the firepower (pure shooters of the James Neal vein) to work. We have forwards with the hockey sense, vision, and compete level to make a cycle work if we get guys like Stone, Brodie, Hamilton, Giordano, Kulak, Hamonic, Kylington, Andersson sneaking into the dangerous areas.

But Gulutzan's ask of the defense is to stand at or behind the blue lines staying at home. It's a waste. It magnifies their lesser defensive games because they don't do anything at the other end. It makes our forwards cycle until a goalie gets to make an easy save, even backups can stop a shot in the slot if they know it's coming and the finisher is not Sean Monahan.

But yes, Gulutzan isn't to blame for a random stretch where our defense coughed up the puck more than usual. I don't think that is a long term issue and I don't think this defense is especially bad defensively, even if they are not as good as the Hurricanes, Ducks, or Blue Jackets defensively. I'd however argue that our defense has less options when they are catching pucks in the corners from Smith than when they are collecting them in stride, but I don't have supporting evidence - it's just my opinion. I do like puck handling goalies and have seen the benefits that Holtby, Price, Rinne, Bishop, and before them Brodeur/Roy bring. But maybe Gulutzan's tweaks to the system were too much accomodation for Smith. I am fine with Smith making a stretch pass or going glass and out or finding a winger, but having him slow the puck down and throw suicide passes at our defensemen in the corners only works with Giordano because Giordano is probably the best player in the NHL not named Drew Doughty or Victor Hedman in that kind of situation.

He is to blame for:

- Versteeg-X-Brouwer being force fed down our throats in crunch time. They cost us the Stars game. Not the defense.
- the slow and non-threatening transition game this team plays
- the inevitible moment when Borderline AHLer Matt Bartkowski draws back in for Everyday NHLer Kulak (I pray it isn't tonight) and costs us another game with his awful passing, positioning, stick, and general hockeyIQ
- The Backlund and Jankowski lines' futile cycling action playing 3 on 5
- Bennett's steady decline from an important core piece to a Pray-He-Doesn't-Bust bottom 6er

So you want to blame him for:

- playing the 4th line 9-10 minutes a night?

- the transition game that’s “non threatening” yet we’re middle of the pack in GF

- something that hasn’t even happened yet? And even if it does it’s the swap of a number 6 d man?

- Backlund and Jankowski lines cycling? If anything this has been a strength the past little while.

- Bennet not being a top six scoring machine? I’m sorry but Bennett has never been a core piece. He’s had the potential to be for sure, but that hasn’t been realized. Maybe this partly due to him not fitting into GG’s system, but the player needs to take some responsibility as well.

There are some legitimate reasons to be upset with how the team has played the last two games, but I really don’t think your criticisms are all that valid.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

2 games ago in Washington.

Man, people have really short memories.

And before that? The ducks game?

Point being that the Washington game was one of very few where they played great

[Racki]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

2 games ago in Washington.

Man, people have really short memories.

Originally Posted by Red

And before that? The ducks game?

Point being that the Washington game was one of very few where they played great

Too many times this year we've been the second hardest working team on the ice.

We rarely look ready to go in the first ten minutes of a game.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by bax

So you want to blame him for:

- playing the 4th line 9-10 minutes a night?

Without regard for time and score? yes.

- the transition game that’s “non threatening” yet we’re middle of the pack in GF

One line that has three guys on pace for 35+ goals, while also scoring a ton of their goals on the power play. Every other line and defense pair is non threatening ESPECIALLY on the rush. Every other line is a non-threat. This team doesn't score in transition. In fact they don't really score at all if the top line isn't out there. And this dates back to last year, except last year the "top line" was 3M. It includes the playoffs too. This is a team that was one of the top scoring teams in the league before Gulutzan got here, that only added a talent like Matthew Tkachuk and saw the snakebitten Micheal Ferland break his bad luck.

- something that hasn’t even happened yet? And even if it does it’s the swap of a number 6 d man?

It has happened before, and it will happen again. Yes.

And it's not a swap of #6 defensemen. It's a swap of an AHL defenseman with an NHL defenseman.

- Backlund and Jankowski lines cycling? If anything this has been a strength the past little while.

3 on 5 cycling is not a strength. 5 on 5 cycling is a strength. Having three forwards keep the puck deep in teh zone while the defensemen stand around and watch is not dangerous, and that is how the Gulutzan flames play. So yes.

- Bennet not being a top six scoring machine? I’m sorry but Bennett has never been a core piece. He’s had the potential to be for sure, but that hasn’t been realized. Maybe this partly due to him not fitting into GG’s system, but the player needs to take some responsibility as well.

Bennett's 5-on-5 production pace for the first 116 games of is career, is absolutely a top 6, no, top line level. And then Gulutzan broke him by taking opportunities away from him and putting him in positions to fail. It sound sensationalist, but that's what happened. You don't produce for 116 games like a star NHLer and then just completely lose all talent unless a coach is trying to change your game without appreciating the things you do well.

There are some legitimate reasons to be upset with how the team has played the last two games, but I really don’t think your criticisms are all that valid.

I do think they are valid. And it's not about the last two games. I don't base my decisions on two games at a time. In fact I would say the Washington game and St. Louis games were excellently played games, as was Columbus. My opinions are based on Gulutzan's body of work and its inability to extract the most out of this roster on a whole. Sorry if it's a problem that his body of work hasn't impressed me.

[jlh2640]

I cannot understand why they look so horrible some nights

[Racki]

Thanks to treliving and his shrewd negotiation skills the core group will still be intact next year for a better staff to come in and right the ship.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Racki

Thanks to treliving and his shrewd negotiation skills the core group will still be intact next year for a better staff to come in and right the ship.

The staff is fine, there won't be any new coach next season. The ship is currently fine too.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by Racki

Thanks to treliving and his shrewd negotiation skills the core group will still be intact next year for a better staff to come in and right the ship.

I want Dave Tippet lol

[MisterJoji]

Couple of musings I was thinking about. Maybe Treliving sees Gulutzan has some room for improvement but also sees enough likeable assets to allow him to grow into the role. Joel Quenneville didn’t become Joel Quenneville over night. The players seem to like Glen, rarely calling anyone out in public. He’s well spoken and says the right things. We’ve also seen glimpses of a good system with good advanced stats. He just needs to learn how to better assess the pulse of a game and could use some in-game coaching improvements. With more experience you would think this would improve.

Which leads to my second though. How much say do the assistant coaches get? It’s reasonable to assume Cameron and Jerrard also know Brodie is better on the right and playing the 4th line in the closing minutes of a close game is a recipe for disaster. Have they approached Glen with this. I would find it hard to believe he rules with an iron fist. Or are all three married completely in agreement?

I don’t know, just spitballing here.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

It's weird how people think that they will somehow convince others that they have a more accurate opinion of the coaching staff by posting mindless drivel and insults worthy of five year olds about the coaching staff. This applies to pretty much every situation where opinions on the coaching staff and personnel diverge.

I wonder what makes people think that this type of argument will prove convincing. Do you think if you act cocky/idiotic enough people will be too embarrassed to disagree? Perhaps you feel that by going all agro it'll convince people that your fake confidence is real.

Either way, it's not working. In fact, I'm inclined to automatically disagree with obviously juvenile insults towards either our coaching staff or people who disagree.


As for actual analysis, coaching is probably one of the most difficult areas for fans to evaluate. We have no idea whether the players are lazy/unskilled/too dumb to play the way they are taught and even if that is the case we tend to have an expectation that it is the coaches responsibility to overcome those deficits and ensure the team overachieves.

Some of the greatest coaches of all time have lost the room or failed to extract results from talented rosters. Beyond that, we then have to think about whether or not our roster does have the talent necessary to compete at the level we expect. For all we know GG is the next Scotty Bowman and he's already getting this group to perform above their talent level.

And that's not even including things like parity, bias, luck and general lack of knowledge/information among the fanbase. Heck, I'd argue that evaluating players based solely on what we see on TV is at best 60-70% as effective as watching in person (from a birds eye vantage point).

I'm not convinced that the talent GG is working with is as strong a roster as we tend to give them credit for and I'm also not convinced that GG is getting as much as he can out of each player. Yes, both those things can be true.

Even if he gets fired tomorrow and another coach takes over, there's no way to know for sure if the new coach is the one who is responsible for any improvement in results. There's about 20 different things that factor into the equation that could affect how the team performs and the results they get. And if the players perform worse under the new coach, then what? We gonna bring back GG?

[FiveSeven]

I think our breakouts have a lot to do with the turnovers, the forwards seem to leave the zone early, which does create more opportunities when you have D that can make a good pass, which we have, but when the forwards are covered by a good neutral zone coverage then there's zero speed on the breakout and no pass option except to your D partner to look for another angle. With an aggressive forecheck this can spell disaster as well.

I understand you want to be a master of your own structure and impose your will, but there has to be a backup plan vs tactics that are specifically meant to nullify your strategy. Maybe that's asking too much of the players to remember and execute but it's just so frustrating seeing the inevitable coming.