Which seams to be what the government is doing. They have given themselves well over a year before releasing a plan. I would hope that is enough time to come up wih a proper one.
I tend to think that this is going to once again, be an election platform for the Libs.
Vote for the mean Conservatives and this will never get done, vote for us, the shiny ponies, and we will legalize it in the next three years.
I'm betting this is about 5 years away.
Why would they get it done when its a huge vote grabber in an election.
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I tend to think that this is going to once again, be an election platform for the Libs.
Vote for the mean Conservatives and this will never get done, vote for us, the shiny ponies, and we will legalize it in the next three years.
I'm betting this is about 5 years away.
Why would they get it done when its a huge vote grabber in an election.
I wonder if 5 years isn't optimistic, if it happens at all?
Is Canada not tied to international drug trafficking laws that we simply can't walk away from?
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Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
I wonder if 5 years isn't optimistic, if it happens at all? Is Canada not tied to international drug trafficking laws that we simply can't walk away from?
Yes that's another consideration.
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That's a bit pessimistic. You could literally say that about every single election platform
Come on Street, by now you should know that I'm indredibly pessimistic about everything.
And this is no ordinary election platform, this is one that can garner incredible amounts of votes among one group and age group. Why wouldn't Justin, hold it in his bag, put a bit of effort into the study of it in the first term, and then step up to the podium during the election, say "We've done out due diligence, if you vote for me its spliffs for everyone"
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I tend to think that this is going to once again, be an election platform for the Libs.
Vote for the mean Conservatives and this will never get done, vote for us, the shiny ponies, and we will legalize it in the next three years.
I'm betting this is about 5 years away.
Why would they get it done when its a huge vote grabber in an election.
Because if they do that they'll bleed votes to the NDP. The reason the Liberals won the election this time around was because of fatigue towards the Conservatives and they're ability to outflank the NDP on the left during their campaign. As I pretty much predicted, now that they're on office, they've pretty much moved back towards the centre. If they don't deliver on the marijuana issue or any of the other socially progressive social policies they campaigned on, they risk losing a huge chunk of support back to the NDP in Quebec and BC.
To your point on the previous page regarding people still going to dealers, I think the evidence proves otherwise. The legal dispensaries in Washington State and Colorado have really crowded out the dealers, and we're seeing the same thing with the "illegal" dispensaries on the West Coast. People don't like going to drug dealers if they don't have to, and why would they? Would you honestly want to buy liquor brewed in some guys bathroom if it saved you an extra $10 or was an extra 20% stronger? Hell, I cringe when people give me their homemade wine or beer. Not to mention the convenience factor of going to a store with a massive selection of strains, edibles, etc. vs. having to call some burnout and waiting for him to show up.
Parents, older brother etc will also be educated on the risks this substance has on the youth. If they aren't complete scumbags then they won't be letting little jimmy get away with pinching off their buds. If you do end up coming from a broken family that doesn't give a ####, I'm sorry but your development path was going to be screwed regardless if weed is legal or not.
I have not spoken to 'limiting levels of THC' and do not believe in this method. The more THC a bud has, the less of it you have to ingest. Which also means you can feel comfortable paying twice as much KNOWING this regulated product will get you just as high by smoking half as much. The only way gangs can compete with branded products from corporations is by lacing the weed or using harmful chemicals. That doesn't sound very fun for the consumer and you bet your ass that regular smokers know if their weed has been tampered with. Peace of mind is a big deal when it comes to smoking.
Have you seen any of this anti-drug advertising? Because I have and it's a complete joke. I've seen several advertisements implying that weed makes you hallucinate. There are 0 campaigns I've seen spreading awareness to the effects it has on adolescent brains.
I agree that a solid framework needs to be in place before legalization can occur. THIS is what we need to be discussing. Not whether or not it should be legalized, but HOW it should be legalized.
As you say, Canadian Youth are the highest consumers of pot in the Western World. That means what we have in place hasn't worked. Decriminalization is an even worse route to go which essentially only addresses 1 issue while amplifying every other issue. As far as I've seen weed is already treated as a decriminalized drug in Alberta, it's just not official.
I wonder if 5 years isn't optimistic, if it happens at all?
Is Canada not tied to international drug trafficking laws that we simply can't walk away from?
Canada moves quicker then the USA when it comes to changing policy, yet several states have been able to do this in under 2 years.
You know, I'm fine with legalization, really I am, and like I've mentioned before, my major concern is two fold right now, and that's handling the legal or justice system ramifications.
My first concern is basically around how teens get their hands on it, now your talking about in your second point creating a harsh punishment system for people that give or sell it to teens. And that's fine, but lets talk about that for a second. Drug and especially grass dealing isn't just shadowy guys in leather coats or jean jackets with cutoff sleeves hanging around in school yards selling to kids. Its going to be parents doing the same thing that they do with beer. or their older brother or younger brother or sister, or their neighbor, or their friend. Are we going to treat them harshly? Or are we going to have to create a two level system of justice where we wink at someone familiar with the teen and say, hey man its just a little pot, while some other guy is given 5 years in jail, or time at a workfarm or whatever?
On the second point and it was bought up before and that's to limit the level of THC that's allowable in regulated pot. But and I still say this with all earnestness, as much as we envision that these criminal gangs will throw their hands up and go get good honest work, they're going to protect their revenue stream, and that means they either undercut the government costs, which might not be too hard because frankly they don't have the manufacturing or distribution costs that government regulated pot would have, nor would they have to pay taxes. Meanwhile your going to have multiple levels of tax on legal pot in terms of on the grower and on the buyer.
So to me, that means the gangs are going to focus on better (not sure that's the right word?) cheaper pot.
In terms of spending dollars, I think last year Canada spent over $7 million alone just on anti-drug advertising, which is more then all of the other health campaigns combined, but a UN study showed that Canadian Youth were the highest consumers of pot in the Western World, so before we get into a boondoogle of just throw money at it and the problem will disappear due to shiny ads and frying pans and eggs, the government needs to show an actual executable plan that makes sense.
As much as there are a lot of good reasons why it should be legalized, I think that there has to be a solid framework and comprehensive framework on how this is going to look, which means that the government has to resist the urge to rush into it because there's "Gold in them thar hills". Because if we don't this whole thing because a massive mess and fu.
I don't think that they should be putting the jail sentence on the dealer, the huge sentence should be on the grower. Cut the grower out of the equation and the dealer doesn't exist.
For the government to actually show an executable plan that makes sense is probably not going to happen. Look at the money brought in from gambling and look at the help they offer. It's not much when you compare the problems it causes and the revenue it brings in.
And even if that is the case, it does not address the problems which arise from having to substance be illegal.
Hey look, it's almost as if we are trying to reduce gang activity by legalizing, not trying to reduce the incidence of psychosis from 1 in 95000 to 1 in 100000.
First let me say, I'm pro-legalization.
According to that Harvard article which Dion posted, a regular boy/girl, who doesn't have a history of psychosis, has a 7 in 1000 chance of developing it. If that individual uses marijuana (according to the article/research) just once, it doubles to 14 in 1000. And if the user is a heavy user, it jumps to 42 in 1000. A little different than your numbers, but it's also just one article/study.
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I am all l for legalizing the stuff, in fact I am all for legalizing everything. It reduces crime, empties out prisons...etc. People need to be responsible for their choices. It wouldn't make me do drugs, as I have no interest in personally.
However, this idea that pot is harmless, and a magic elixir for everything is the biggest crock of crap. I was just in Vancouver, and went into the little pot palace there, just to buy a pipe as a gift for a friend who's a 'connoisseur'. I have never seen a bigger bunch of space cadets, right from the clientele to the staff working there. I have a couple friends from high school who are heavy users, and have maintained heavy usage into their 40's, and at their most sober moments, they are only half there. Like they are permanently distracted by a squirrel or something. One of them has a smokers cough so brutal, it sounds like he has inhaled a pound of butter, and he doesn't smoke cigarettes ever.
Recreational users? Yeah, I know a lot of people that will light up once a month or so and they are just like anyone else. However, the few people I know that maintain it as a lifestyle? They are basically unemployable, and to be honest, bordering on having a mental disability that would qualify them for hockey helmets and leashes in public. It isn't without it's side effects. And anyone who thinks so, is just trying to justify an addiction.
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I am all l for legalizing the stuff, in fact I am all for legalizing everything. It reduces crime, empties out prisons...etc. People need to be responsible for their choices. It wouldn't make me do drugs, as I have no interest in personally.
However, this idea that pot is harmless, and a magic elixir for everything is the biggest crock of crap. I was just in Vancouver, and went into the little pot palace there, just to buy a pipe as a gift for a friend who's a 'connoisseur'. I have never seen a bigger bunch of space cadets, right from the clientele to the staff working there. I have a couple friends from high school who are heavy users, and have maintained heavy usage into their 40's, and at their most sober moments, they are only half there. Like they are permanently distracted by a squirrel or something. One of them has a smokers cough so brutal, it sounds like he has inhaled a pound of butter, and he doesn't smoke cigarettes ever.
Recreational users? Yeah, I know a lot of people that will light up once a month or so and they are just like anyone else. However, the few people I know that maintain it as a lifestyle? They are basically unemployable, and to be honest, bordering on having a mental disability that would qualify them for hockey helmets and leashes in public. It isn't without it's side effects. And anyone who thinks so, is just trying to justify an addiction.
As I've mentioned on this site before, anyone who employs a pot "lifestyle" and reads "high times" magazine is a goof.
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I am all l for legalizing the stuff, in fact I am all for legalizing everything. It reduces crime, empties out prisons...etc. People need to be responsible for their choices. It wouldn't make me do drugs, as I have no interest in personally.
However, this idea that pot is harmless, and a magic elixir for everything is the biggest crock of crap. I was just in Vancouver, and went into the little pot palace there, just to buy a pipe as a gift for a friend who's a 'connoisseur'. I have never seen a bigger bunch of space cadets, right from the clientele to the staff working there. I have a couple friends from high school who are heavy users, and have maintained heavy usage into their 40's, and at their most sober moments, they are only half there. Like they are permanently distracted by a squirrel or something. One of them has a smokers cough so brutal, it sounds like he has inhaled a pound of butter, and he doesn't smoke cigarettes ever.
Recreational users? Yeah, I know a lot of people that will light up once a month or so and they are just like anyone else. However, the few people I know that maintain it as a lifestyle? They are basically unemployable, and to be honest, bordering on having a mental disability that would qualify them for hockey helmets and leashes in public. It isn't without it's side effects. And anyone who thinks so, is just trying to justify an addiction.
There is certainly a small subset of people that believe this (just like anti-vaxers, climate change deniers, etc..) but I think anyone with a brain refutes it. I haven't seen anyone in here claiming it to be a magic elixir, or that it has no harmful side effects.
That said, part of the legalization issue, for me anyways, is the availability of other methods of receiving a THC dose without having to smoke anything. As it stands now, if you want that, you have to make it yourself. Which is a huge pain in the butt.
I think most heavy users are the first to point out that it is non-addictive on a physical level (you don't get withdrawal, chemical dependence, etc.), but like literally anything else, it can be addictive on a mental level.
I'm now 10 years out from being a heavy user, and I twitch like a dog for Snausages when people light up at parties and whatnot. Mental addictions can last a long damn time.
There looks to be a few different numbers thrown around in that study of the various costs, but lets use a conservative estimate of $150,000 of incremental lifetime costs to the medical system.
Keep in mind this does not consider the additional burdens placed on families, friends, employers, etc.
420,000 - 70,000 = 350,000 incremental mental health issues experienced in the controlled population of 10,000,000.
350,000 * 150,000 = $52.5Bn in incremental costs.
Pretty interesting when $ values start to be assigned. Obviously this is very rudimentary, but the premise is valid.
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Marijuana is not good for you and in an objective world, it wouldn't be legal.
That being said, the costs associated with policing it and the enforcement of those regulations (prison time etc...) do not outweigh the negatives.
Just like booze, objectively, it probably should be illegal, but it's not worth it.
But it can be good for health, it's helping people all over the world with serious health issues. There are children that went from arrested development and tortured by epilepsy to normal and free from pain/seizures. To make the blanket statement that it's not good for you... that's not true at all. For some people it is, for some people it isn't. What do you even mean an objective world? Free from health issues? Utopic hyperintelligent with clairvoyance? We're trying to be objective here.
In an objective world, everyone drinks a quantity of water determined by their body weight, and only eats a state-portioned bowl of hyper-nutritious gruel 5 times daily.
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