Sam Harris does a convincing job that science can answer moral questions, the argument is I think clear that religion is not the source of morality, but rather society is.
So than why use morality as an argument against god?
So than why use morality as an argument against god?
Sam Harris is specifically arguing against Christian apologist William Lane Craig, although references to Craig are edited out for the purposes of that video.
Look up the debate on YouTube, Sam Harris vs William Lane Craig, and you'll see why he's using morality as an argument against the existence of the Judeo-Christian god. It's because WLC is referencing morality as something that starts and ends with God.
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Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
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So than why use morality as an argument against god?
As Tourqe said its a common argument made by many religions, that how could you be moral without God. Of course most intelligent people know that if you knew for certain tomorrow that there is no God you wouldn't start killing and raping people, morality is a construct of society, evolving and refining itself.
I can't tell you how often I hear in debates this idea that morality is from God and that non believers have to be immoral people because of this, in fact in the US its a big part of the reason why Atheists are so distrusted by the vast majority of the US population.
Also many apologists have argued that science cannot comment on morality, that its beyond its purvue, and of course that morality exists because of religion.
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As Tourqe said its a common argument made by many religions, that how could you be moral without God. Of course most intelligent people know that if you knew for certain tomorrow that there is no God you wouldn't start killing and raping people, morality is a construct of society, evolving and refining itself.
I can't tell you how often I hear in debates this idea that morality is from God and that non believers have to be immoral people because of this, in fact in the US its a big part of the reason why Atheists are so distrusted by the vast majority of the US population.
Also many apologists have argued that science cannot comment on morality, that its beyond its purvue, and of course that morality exists because of religion.
I think my morality is a lot higher than many xtians who think eternal bliss awaits them at the end of the road.
The difference between me and your god is that if I knew a child was about to be raped or abused, and I was in a position to do something to stop it, I would.
Well without the context, that first video was misleading and only encourages the simple.
Maybe to you, but plenty of Christians in the US believe in things like divine command theory, which allows them to explain away tragedies and atrocities that a benevolent deity would have stopped.
As far as wacky beliefs go, it's not really in the mainstream in Canada as it is in the US.
God lets children die to get them to heaven sooner. And to punish the parents for their sins. I wish I made that up as a joke, I know people who actually believe that
Also, children must suffer because we all have free will. Hear that one too.
Found this interesting clip - Basically, a couple started up a website for people who are into fitness, swingers and...Christian. Kinda seems like something the Bible wouldn't allow, to me.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Get this: Religious and nonreligious people are equally prone to immoral acts
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So finds a new study by Saint Peter's University, which I read about in Science magazine.
Daniel Wisneski and Wilhelm Hofmann, the study's lead authors, recruited 1,252 adults between ages 18 and 68 using Craigslist, Facebook, Twitter and other outlets. Participants downloaded an app to their smartphones that allowed researchers to text them five times a day. The participants then reported any moral or immoral acts — things they did themselves, witnessed or heard about — and rated how intensely they felt about those acts on a scale of 0 to 5.
Participants filed 13,240 reports, describing everything from arranging adulterous encounters (immoral) to giving a homeless man a sandwich (moral). Researchers spent weeks reviewing the comments and identified six moral principles: care for others, fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority and sanctity. Researchers also found that the participants' judgment reflected two other moral behaviors: honesty and self-discipline.
“They found that conservatives were more likely than liberals to report acts involving sanctity and respect for authority, and liberals were more likely than conservatives to talk about fairness,” according to Science.
But their finding on religion — that people who identified themselves as religious were just as moral or immoral as nonreligious people — most grabbed my attention
Found this interesting clip - Basically, a couple started up a website for people who are into fitness, swingers and...Christian. Kinda seems like something the Bible wouldn't allow, to me.
"The Bible doesn't talk about swinging specifically."
Right. Remove brain and insert book.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Its Midland College, public institution, but he's in culture shock as he's young and never experienced this kind of mindset. He's a top prospect in BC and a very tall pitcher 6'6", so he can't be the one to ruffle feathers and complain about anything like racism or especially their beloved voluntary prayer and weekly bible lessons. The racism is what gets him the most, he said he didn't realize that it could be this bad in this day and age, so sad to be exposed to this at 18.
I have nothing to offer but my profound apologies for knowing that anyone must live in Midland, Texas.
Unless you have a lot of money to spend, Midland is not a particularly fun place to be.
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Found this interesting clip - Basically, a couple started up a website for people who are into fitness, swingers and...Christian. Kinda seems like something the Bible wouldn't allow, to me.
Ugh.
We could go back and forth forever about the existence of God, but the thought of these people having group sex should be enough to convince almost anyone that Satan is out there.
Bit disapointed by this really being spread by a lot of my FB atheist friends as vindication that Jesus never existed, I echo the call that it does no one in the movement any favors to be focusing on this particular issue.
A longtime minister and religious columnist announced this week that he now identified as an atheist, the Friendly Atheist reported.
“This was not an overnight decision,” Rev. Bob Ripley wrote in his latest syndicated column. “I didn’t go to bed one night this week a believer and wake up an unbeliever. I wasn’t blinded on Tuesday by the light of reason that led to a deconversion. I began this journey more than seven years ago. It led initially to me taking early retirement from ministry and has continued over the ensuing five years.”
Ripley, a former senior minister at Metropolitan United Church in Toronto — Canada’s largest Protestant church — noted that his latest column was the most challenging he had to write since it began running 25 years ago. He has been a minister for more than 30 years. The announcement coincides with the release of a book explaining the details of what he calls a “deconversion.”
In the column, Ripley insisted to his religious readers that he had not changed.
“The heart that was once surrendered to Jesus Christ, that gave itself to others and infused a vocation with kindness, still beats in me,” he wrote. “If you have ever met me, know that the person I was then, I am now, still striving for integrity and capable of profound love.”
He also admitted that part of him “wanted to remain silent” and avoid risking incurring the anger of some of his readers.
“I also know how crippling secrets are and that it is important every once in a while to tell the secret of who we are,” Ripley stated. “If we don’t, we risk coming to believe the edited version of ourselves we hope others will find acceptable.”
The wow was not at this happening, but the fact it is such a big leader in his Church. Yeah its actually been a growing trend, there's a book coming out with dozens of such stories, many of them stay with the Church and stay in the closet though due to dedicating so much of their life and education to their work.
