Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Or put the GST back to 7%

Or cut back on giving profitable companies subsidies

Or maybe, just maybe, we value human lives and put them first and not use money as a bull**** excuse so we can get some kicks watching them suffer

You'd think that with all the spending the Liberals have been doing and want to do plus their underlying desire to help team Canada they would have thought about increasing the GST over their 8 years in power.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

This is an example of what the NDP is all about. They rule like there is an endless supply of money. They have no ability to manage an economy whatsoever.

I don't get it. Our healthcare system is unsustainable, largely from a lack of long term funding, and they want to expand the system even more.

Sure it's nice to have these things, but shouldn't things like more doctors, nurses, healthcare workers, improved waiting times, etc. be more of a priority in terms of spending.

When people have access to the medication they need it reduces the overall burden on the healthcare system.

“Our healthcare system is unsustainable” because you said so? Your hysteria driven posts are really getting old.

[CliffFletcher]

Two dumbest things federal governments have done in the last 15 years.

1) Conservatives reducing the GST to 5 per cent

2) Liberals drawing OAS eligibility back to 65 after the Conservatives raised it to 67.

Though ultimately this on Canadian voters. We’re not serious people. Nobody is willing to foot the bill for an aging population. That’s future politician’s problem. We’ll just keep kicking the can down the road until we hit a budget crisis in 10 or 15 years.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Or maybe, just maybe, we value human lives and put them first and not use money as a bull**** excuse so we can get some kicks watching them suffer

Nobody is deliberating withholding healthcare, the Canadian and Provincial governments now collect over $700B in income and sales tax and spends over $300B of that on health care. But even that isn't enough for everything, the US spends even more and still isn't enough.

Ultimately health care, especially a single-pay system, is a rationing system that spends the money based on a ROI and population needs (and one that is getting older).

[woob]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Jesus, you guys love bringing up the UCP and trying to disparage them. They have you on full tilt.

I mean, they have a pretty good track record of coming out with some kind of release anytime the Feds do something.

Also, I think I have about a dozen posts in the last 2 months. Not sure that’s full tilt? What does Jesus tell you?

[flamesfever]

QUOTE=calculoso;8999063]Where would you propose this funding come from?[/QUOTE]

It wouldn't take much for another Federal Government to be significantly more efficient than our present bunch in Ottawa. Less regulation and a more efficient system for the approval of major projects would help considerably.

One example of where we could increase our funding would be to take advantage of our vast reserves of natural gas. We have the chance to make a positive impact on global energy security, reliability, and emission reduction by reducing the reliance on coal.

The timing is right, as our ability to export LNG is just getting started with the LNG plant at Kitimat BC, which is due for completion in 2025, while other projects are slated for completion sometime between 2027 and 2030. Also, Biden has just put a pause on export approvals to satisfy his environmentalist voting base.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

When people have access to the medication they need it reduces the overall burden on the healthcare system.

“Our healthcare system is unsustainable” because you said so? Your hysteria driven posts are really getting old.

As I see it, our healthcare system is publicly funded by our provincial and federal governments, while our medication has been privately funded, so lumping the two together increases the overall burden on our healthcare system.

Also, you may know that when our universal healthcare system was first devised, it was assumed that the cost would be split between the federal and provincial government as to 50% each. At present, I understand that the federal Government are only covering about 22%. Also, I recall most, if not all the provinces have recently informed the federal government that they are unable to pay for a Pharmacare program.

I believe it is common knowledge that whether or not our healthcare system is sustainable is a reasonable question, which has been up for debate for long period of time. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see where it's trending. IMO it's getting to a state where we are going to have to ask ourselves the question, "How can we modify or change it, to make it economically sustainable over the long run?".

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I find it amusing how much hand wringing y'all are doing over this here, yet never give a #### about things like Turkish Tylenol(which seems to be a similar financial hit-at province scale) or, oh, $1.5 BILLION just handed over no questions asked to a pipeline company. Where are you calls for an investigation into that? Or demanding he RCMP finally wrap up it's report on Kenney's sketchy seizing of power?

Isn't this what the Alberta politics thread is for? Not sure what any of those 3 topics have anything to do with a Canadian federal politics thread. Why the focus specifically on those issues?

But since these provincial issues are brought up by yourself as a whataboutism and you clearly feel they must be addressed, I will address, hopefully others can as well if they wish as positions are being called out:

The Turkish Tylenol debacle is a farce and an example of UCP / Smith shortsighted waste of taxpayers money. Shortsighted move with little planning out of panic.

The 1.5 billion investment in Keystone XL was sound for Albertan energy infrastructure and was for a project permitted at the time to proceed. The Biden administration illegally revoking the permit is now facing a lawsuit by both the government and Transcanada under NAFTA provisions, and 21 states also sued the Biden administration. I am in full agreement with what the UCP did there and I hope for Albertans and Canadians sake that the lawsuits succeed to protect our interests. I've stated my own position on it in the past here.

The Kenney investigation should have concluded way earlier, but its moot whatever the results at this point with him no longer being in politics. If anything the RCMP's slowness here in this case gives weight on why committees on ArriveCAN should not be buried under the guise of RCMP investigation, and it seems your issues are more with the RCMP here (as Kenney is innocent unless proven guilty). I agree the RCMP needs to do better.

As for why we don't talk about those issues today? Hmm, one is from 2022, one is from 2020, one is from 2017. The pharmacare deal, not without controversy on how it will be paid for, happened yesterday and will significantly impact Canadians one way or another. People are voicing their opinions on it in a political thread meant for such discussion, and you are here calling out why they are discussing it instead of Turkish Tylenols and Kenney's 2017 UCP leadership run?

[Fuzz]

Ah, there it is. You are totally supportive of a government flushing $1.5 billion on a gamble Trump would win. How anyone could possible defend this is comically insane. Ya, they are suing. Of course they are. That doesn't mean Kenney had any right to gamble on a US election with our tax dollars.

And in this thread you have, well, I'm not going to count them, but many many posts bemoaning this waste of money, despite it being far less than Kenney's toilet flushing.

So ya, point proven I guess. Supporting one waste of money by your party, while railing against the other. What's that called?

[Fuzz]

https://climatecasechart.com/case/texas-v-biden/


Hrmm, and according to this the case was dismissed, so that was a slam dunk proving Kenney made an awesome decision that is totally worth supporting, even now, somehow.

[PepsiFree]

Hey guys, what does the politics of Calgary, Alberta, Canada have to do with the politics of Canada, where the province of Alberta is located, which happens to be where the city of Calgary is located, on a message board filled with people living in Calgary, Alberta, Canada?

I’m only asking because the UCP, including the Premier, mention Trudeau and talk about decisions made by the Federal government weekly, including demanding Trudeau speak to them after he appeared on a podcast hosted in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, but I’m told that even mentioning the Alberta government (which is located in Canada) in a thread about Canadian politics is just too darn confusing for anyone to figure out.

[Fuzz]

I could have posted this query in the Alberta politics thread, but I doubt they even open it to see it.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Nobody is deliberating withholding healthcare, the Canadian and Provincial governments now collect over $700B in income and sales tax and spends over $300B of that on health care. But even that isn't enough for everything, the US spends even more and still isn't enough.

Ultimately health care, especially a single-pay system, is a rationing system that spends the money based on a ROI and population needs (and one that is getting older).

Healthcare isn't, or at least shouldn't be, about a Return on Investment.

Healthcare is a need.

If you have a condition that requires attention to survive, cost, really, is irrelevant.

That's what should make the single payer system effective. You need emergency surgery? Done. We don't look at the dollars and cents. We don't say "it'd be more cost effective to do these three elective surgeries rather than this one life saving one".

I think medication should be the same. You're a father of two, who has been healthy and in shape for your entire life? Then at 36 get disagnosed with a disease that there's nothing you could have done to prevent, and the medication would bankrupt you and your family? Hold on... what's the return on investment for the taxpayer? Should we really cover this? I mean, where's the money coming from?



To circle back to the quoted post, is it delibrate? No, at least I hope not. Is it negligent? Yeah, especially if we, as a society, are talking about pharmacare and we're stopping to say "but what about the ROI?" and "but, but, but who's going to pay for this?"

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Healthcare isn't, or at least shouldn't be, about a Return on Investment.

Healthcare is a need.

If you have a condition that requires attention to survive, cost, really, is irrelevant.

That's what should make the single payer system effective. You need emergency surgery? Done. We don't look at the dollars and cents. We don't say "it'd be more cost effective to do these three elective surgeries rather than this one life saving one".

I think medication should be the same. You're a father of two, who has been healthy and in shape for your entire life? Then at 36 get disagnosed with a disease that there's nothing you could have done to prevent, and the medication would bankrupt you and your family? Hold on... what's the return on investment for the taxpayer? Should we really cover this? I mean, where's the money coming from?



To circle back to the quoted post, is it delibrate? No, at least I hope not. Is it negligent? Yeah, especially if we, as a society, are talking about pharmacare and we're stopping to say "but what about the ROI?" and "but, but, but who's going to pay for this?"

I hear and sympathize with what you are saying, but in the real world, like it or not, there are financial considerations, the answer of which, are going to determine whether some will live or die. For example, waiting times for people to be diagnosed or treated for cancer are starting to get so long that some will die because of it. The same goes for some extremely expensive medications that are not covered.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I hear and sympathize with what you are saying, but in the real world, like it or not, there are financial considerations, the answer of which, are going to determine whether some will live or die. For example, waiting times for people to be diagnosed or treated for cancer are starting to get so long that some will die because of it. The same goes for some extremely expensive medications that are not covered.

It's almost like decades of tax cuts have left us unable to afford basic needs.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's almost like decades of tax cuts have left us unable to afford basic needs.

When you have a Federal Government that is so ideologically bent that they give up huge opportunities in our resource industry to increase our income, income that could support a more efficient heathcare system, then what you see is what you get.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

When you have a Federal Government that is so ideologically bent that they give up huge opportunities in our resource industry to increase our income, income that could support a more efficient heathcare system, then what you see is what you get.

Yes, evil stuff where Canadian oil production rose 20% while the Liberals were in power, and they bought an export pipeline to ensure continued income.


And if our healthcare funding is dependent on a dying asset, perhaps maybe we should look to other options, no?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

As I see it, our healthcare system is publicly funded by our provincial and federal governments, while our medication has been privately funded, so lumping the two together increases the overall burden on our healthcare system.

Also, you may know that when our universal healthcare system was first devised, it was assumed that the cost would be split between the federal and provincial government as to 50% each. At present, I understand that the federal Government are only covering about 22%. Also, I recall most, if not all the provinces have recently informed the federal government that they are unable to pay for a Pharmacare program.

I believe it is common knowledge that whether or not our healthcare system is sustainable is a reasonable question, which has been up for debate for long period of time. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see where it's trending. IMO it's getting to a state where we are going to have to ask ourselves the question, "How can we modify or change it, to make it economically sustainable over the long run?".

Nowhere in the babbling response do you provide any actual facts that would justify your statement that “our healthcare system is unsustainable”. Instead you’ve opted to pretend as though that wasn’t what you said and are now trying to convince me that you were merely suggesting that we should have a discussion on whether or not it is.

If you don’t want to have an honest discussion that’s fine, but know that some people might call out stuff like that for what it is.

[PepsiFree]

Considering spending on pharmacare doesn’t preclude the government from spending money to “fix” healthcare nor does it preclude the government from raising the money required to “fix” healthcare, and instead actually reduces the burden on healthcare by giving more people access to everything from contraception to life saving medication (which has obvious, undeniable positive impacts on overall population health and reduces doctor and hospital visits)…


…it’s pretty clear rejection of pharmacare based on these grounds is nothing more than ideological nonsense devoid of any actual logic or understanding of how the real world works beyond “government spend money so I complain.”

A little rich considering the same person commented on the Liberal’s “ideological bent” and told someone living with MS what the “real world” is like. What a joke lol.

[Locke]

I have a solution.

We make Hospital admission kind of like Toll Roads.

If you want the doors to open you gotta toss a couple bucks into the bin.

Surely that'll add up after a while...