Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I love to hear comments from the the political minority directed to the establishment

Majority <> Intelligence

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Could they make mortgage interest tax-deductible or do federal rules apply? Just a different form or government subsidies but more in line with their American leanings.

Alberta started operating its own income tax system/forms many years ago (vs just collecting % of federal tax) so if we want our own poorly thought out boutique tax credits we can have them!

It would only apply to the Alberta portion of the return though.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

This just sounds like communism with more steps.



Race to the bottom always works out so well.

Shirley all of the 0% corporate tax states absolutely dominate the US? GDP per capita rank of those states:

Washington 5th
Wyoming 13th
Texas 15th
South Dakota 20th
Ohio 26th
Nevada 31st

Compared to the 6 states with the highest corporate tax rate (9.4-12%):

Iowa 22nd
New Jersey 14th
Pennsylvania 24th
Minnesota 16th
Illinois 12th
Alaska 8th


Obviously this is a terribly cursory analysis, but it seems evident there is no 'correct' answer here.

There is no universal 'correct' answer for the rate but rather individual considerations of the jurisdiction that should go into play.

What's important individual considerations for Alberta to consider is that it has the 2nd most concentration of head offices in Canada and some of it's largest corporate employers are businesses that have made transformational acquisitions of businesses in the US and globally. Arguably keeping the corporate tax rate competitive in Alberta relative to US jurisdictions is probably more important towards maintaining good jobs relative to other provinces. If Alberta becomes too costly a place to do business relative to relocating to another area there could be a lot of companies at risk of redomiciling their head office and moving their highest paid jobs closer to their other non-Alberta assets/operations

Some Examples:

-TC Energy has made incremental acquisitions in the US and Mexico
-Enbridge - Has doubled their footprint in non-Canadian investment over the last 10 years
- CPKC - The 'KC' part was CP's (Canadian Pacific Railway) acquisition of Kansas City Southern.

Corporate taxes aren't just simply a well that can be tapped harder for more government revenue consequence free. We can overall end up losing more than what we get if we're not careful how we think about this. Given the NDP's budget where they simply mechanically plugged in a rate increase * corporate profits escalator for corporate tax, it's clear they aren't thinking about this issue in any depth. As much as this election has turned into a narrative of how crappy a party the UCP has devolved into, it's important to not let the NDP off the hook for their bad policy ideas.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

They're already slamming it as a 38% increase, which technically is correct. They'll absolutely try to use it as a hammer.

It's not even technically correct - it's incomplete and misleading.

Sure, it's a 38% increase on provincial income taxes, but income taxes include both a Federal and Provincial portion. The Federal portion is 15%, so the overall tax rate will go up from 23% to 26%. A Company's tax bill will only go up 13%, all else being equal.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Majority &lt;&gt; Intelligence

If it were up to Yoho only straight white men would have any rights in society.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Slava

She reminds me more and more of Social Credit. Just hare-brained, wacky ideas that will never work and are economically insane. Couple that with the appalling social comments and policies and I just can't believe the NDP isn't winning this in a walk.

It's kind of weird but if the NDP hadn't won in 2015, had never won ever, they'd win this in a landslide. But people blame the NDP for things during their term, sometimes through no fault of their own, but there is some baggage there.

Things like hiring anti-oil staff or even uttering the word 'royalty review' even though nothing was done about it. Raising business tax to 20%. Carbon tax. Raising the minimum wage too fast. Again, not all are bad or NDPs fault, just perceived as such.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

There is no universal 'correct' answer for the rate but rather individual considerations of the jurisdiction that should go into play.

Corporate taxes aren't just simply a well that can be tapped harder for more government revenue consequence free. We can overall end up losing more than what we get if we're not careful how we think about this. Given the NDP's budget where they simply mechanically plugged in a rate increase * corporate profits escalator for corporate tax, it's clear they aren't thinking about this issue in any depth. As much as this election has turned into a narrative of how crappy a party the UCP has devolved into, it's important to not let the NDP off the hook for their bad policy ideas.

Kenney slashed corporate taxes with the promise that the benefits would trickle down in good-paying jobs and filling up office towers in downtown Calgary. Neither of those things has happened and instead, corporations have pocketed the difference or returned it to shareholders.

I don't think it's bad policy to undo something that clearly hasn't worked. The tax rates will still be the lowest in the country, and a percentage point lower than it was under the NDP's original term.

Slashing them to 8% was the original bad policy so let's not let the UCP off the hook for Kenney's "failed experiment" in corporate welfare either.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's kind of weird but if the NDP hadn't won in 2015, had never won ever, they'd win this in a landslide. But people blame the NDP for things during their term, sometimes through no fault of their own, but there is some baggage there.

Things like hiring anti-oil staff or even uttering the word 'royalty review' even though nothing was done about it. Raising business tax to by 20%. Carbon tax. Raising the minimum wage too fast. Again, not all are bad or NDPs fault, just perceived as such.

Big big difference.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by calf

It's not even technically correct - it's incomplete and misleading.

Best to lean into it.

Raise corporate taxes by 38%. Then drop the rate by 27%. Companies pay the same amount in tax, but the province keeps the 9% difference.

Profit!

[Faust]

The Bully Who Haunts Alberta’s Election:

https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/05/17/B...erta-Election/

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If it were up to Yoho only straight white men would have any rights in society.

YohoGPT has limited knowledge of events that occurred after October 1918.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Big big difference.

"I know math is difficult, but—"

— Jim Prentice, Premier (Sept. 2014-Apr. 2015)

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by Faust

The Bully Who Haunts Alberta’s Election:

https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/05/17/B...erta-Election/

Obviously this is something we were all aware of, but the extent and the coordination... this is not the job of government.

The veteran former staffer said Kenney had an overweening need to be viewed as the smartest person in the room and he was not to be questioned or contradicted.
...
“So the only people that could rise to positions of leadership or seniority within the government, and around Kenney, are people who have just been bootlickers, the people who have reaffirmed his positions, reinforced his beliefs, and who will prove themselves to be loyal soldiers no matter what. In Kenney’s world, loyalty is, ‘Thou shalt not disagree,’” the former staffer said.

Kenney previously served as a minister in Stephen Harper’s government, which Wesley said also employed staffers who attacked critics and perceived enemies.

The difference between the Kenney and Harper governments, Wesley said, is that Harper also employed experienced staff who knew how to get the government’s work done, while “over time Kenney found himself surrounded by sycophants and political rookies, who were bent on tribalism.”

“There is a Slack chat and the issues managers would send you a note saying, ‘Hey, here is what this person is saying about your minister or your program,’ and they would suggest you reply. And the reply would be shared on Slack and then all the staffers would be encouraged to like or retweet the tweet.”

Alberta, he said, “had the most polarized discourse in the country, among the lowest vaccination rate, among the highest levels of belief in conspiracy theories and among the highest COVID death rates.”

That a share of my tax dollars went to fund these attacks on private citizens as well as poisoning discourse to score political points during a pandemic? It makes me sick. Good riddance to Kenney and I can't wait to kick the rest of his band of bullies out on the 29th.

We don't accept this in our schools or on the playground because we expect our children to be better. We shouldn't accept it in government either. Honestly, I think we need laws and checks on the powers of politicians to use tax dollars to attack their own citizenry, especially in this type of systemic fashion.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Faust

The Bully Who Haunts Alberta’s Election:

https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/05/17/B...erta-Election/

One of the best paragraphs to describe the Kenney years and the resulting pandora's box he opened.

The Kenney government’s online behaviour fits the definition of what academics call stochastic terrorism. The attempts to dehumanize and vilify perceived enemies is meant to elicit disgust, one of the strongest and most complicated emotions. Creating disgust in turn encourages or gives licence to their supporters to harass their perceived enemies on social media, to pile on — or in the case of Laird and Shane, to directly intimidate them.

And Kenney is the moderate compared that malevolent fleshbag currently acting as Premier.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Kenney slashed corporate taxes with the promise that the benefits would trickle down in good-paying jobs and filling up office towers in downtown Calgary. Neither of those things has happened and instead, corporations have pocketed the difference or returned it to shareholders.

I don't think it's bad policy to undo something that clearly hasn't worked. The tax rates will still be the lowest in the country, and a percentage point lower than it was under the NDP's original term.

Slashing them to 8% was the original bad policy so let's not let the UCP off the hook for Kenney's "failed experiment" in corporate welfare either.

8% vs. 12% was more about keeping what we have than filling the office towers. The companies I identified and more could be at risk of leaving if we're not competitive.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

8% vs. 12% was more about keeping what we have than filling the office towers. The companies I identified and more could be at risk of leaving if we're not competitive.

I think this threat is more academic than real. How many major companies have moved HQ's from Canada in the last 10 years for tax purposes? Encana? But they left after the UCP dropped the tax rate, so it doesn't really help your point any.


These feel like vapid threats to prevent collecting a reasonable tax rate from businesses. And by reasonable, I mean still the lowest in Canada.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1658910258473885696

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If it were up to Yoho only straight white men would have any rights in society.

Only straight white male petrochemical engineers who drive Ram trucks and live in a single family home in Airdrie?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think this threat is more academic than real. How many major companies have moved HQ's from Canada in the last 10 years for tax purposes? Encana? But they left after the UCP dropped the tax rate, so it doesn't really help your point any.


These feel like vapid threats to prevent collecting a reasonable tax rate from businesses. And by reasonable, I mean still the lowest in Canada.

Most Canadian companies do not have major business lines outside of Canada. Some of Alberta's largest companies do. it's a real threat and 'lowest in Canada' is not competitive with the jurisdictions we want to compete with in a business sense.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Most Canadian companies do not have major business lines outside of Canada. Some of Alberta's largest companies do. it's a real threat and 'lowest in Canada' is not competitive with the jurisdictions we want to compete with in a business sense.

How did they survive during the years prior and up to that of 12% tax?