Russia invades Ukraine

[Itse]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Oh boy... Also saw it pop up on Ground News with various sources such as Al Jazeera, Reuters, etc.

I imagine if it's true, this is only going to lead to a pretty big escalation from Russia, no?

No. Russia has nothing to escalate with. They've been doing absolutely everything they can already for a long time now.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Itse

No. Russia has nothing to escalate with. They've been doing absolutely everything they can already for a long time now.

If they tout this as an 'assassination attempt' then maybe Zelensky and government buildings are now 'valid targets'.

[CroFlames]

A seat of government would be a valid target in a war. Of course, this war is illegal so I don't know.

Not that it matters anyway. They've been trying to kill Zelenskyy since Day 1.

[FlameOn]

More commentators weigh in on why this is a false flag operation by Russia. All CCTV around the Kremlin is controlled directly by the State, footage would only have been released if the FSB wanted it to be leaked/released and they have never admitted being hit in such a hugely embarrassing way willingly in the past before i.e. with the Moskva having an "internal fire and ammo explosion" press releases. Several powerful air defense systems were installed a few months back to counter the threat of drones after the Moskva sinking that were within 2KM of the flight path the drone supposedly took to hit the Kremlin.

For the attack to happen as claimed, all AA site operators were asleep or all the AA systems were broken, and Kremlin confirmed a highly embarrassing and brazen attack on the heart of their capital with high definition color CCTV cameras they control within the hour of the attack, w/ cameras pointed exactly where they wanted. Kremlin would never admit such weakness, if the attack came from Ukraine and there are a lot of coincidences there.

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1653760990469554177
https://twitter.com/PutinIsAVirus/st...80980224671745

[activeStick]

New stamp launched by Ukraine to commemorate last night's attack

Assuming this account is legit

https://twitter.com/user/status/1653769407099707395

[Harry Lime]

Don't know one way or the other, but I would think that if they wanted to hit the Kremlin, they would hit them a hell of a lot harder than that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its just weird.


I keep looking for tracers, or the streak from an igniting missile engine, but I'm not seeing that. The drone blows up above the dome like on its own.


I don't know maybe my conspiracy theory tinfoil hat is on too tight, but it looks like a self blow up, and unless it was packed with GI Joe style titanium rods an object like that isn't capable of doing any real damage to that dome.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its just weird.


I keep looking for tracers, or the streak from an igniting missile engine, but I'm not seeing that. The drone blows up above the dome like on its own.


I don't know maybe my conspiracy theory tinfoil hat is on too tight, but it looks like a self blow up, and unless it was packed with GI Joe style titanium rods an object like that isn't capable of doing any real damage to that dome.

On CNN, they said that it was shot just before it hit the dome. but the lack of tracers seems odd.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If the U.S. was behind that at all and wanted to hit the Kremlin it would be gone.

"Attempts to disown this, both in Kyiv and in Washington, are, of course, absolutely ridiculous. We know very well that decisions about such actions, about such terrorist attacks, are made not in Kyiv but in Washington," said Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

He said the United States was "undoubtedly" behind the incident and added - again without stating evidence - that Washington often selected both the targets for Ukraine to attack, and the means to attack them.

"This is also often dictated from across the ocean ... In Washington they must clearly understand that we know this," Peskov said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia...ck-2023-05-04/

[you&me]

Sort of serious question - why are the Russians so bad at all of this?

Like, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there have been and are great Russian minds throughout history... Why on earth are there so many obvious ineptitudes on display through all of this? Like, the 3 SIM cards - that was laughable, but also believable as it could boil down to some idiot in the field... But things like this "assassination attempt" on the Kremlin... Who looks at that and thinks 'that's good enough to show the world' and who do they think they're fooling?

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by you&me

Sort of serious question - why are the Russians so bad at all of this?

Like, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there have been and are great Russian minds throughout history... Why on earth are there so many obvious ineptitudes on display through all of this? Like, the 3 SIM cards - that was laughable, but also believable as it could boil down to some idiot in the field... But things like this "assassination attempt" on the Kremlin... Who looks at that and thinks 'that's good enough to show the world' and who do they think they're fooling?

Russian domestic audience to justify another round of mobilizations and counter the Ukrainian counter offensive. We've seen US rubes gullible enough to believe GOP lies, there are arguably much more of that type of person in Russia.

We've seen throwing meat at the Ukrainians manage to stall the counter offensives last year in Kharkiv and Donbass, at a cost of 100K Russian casualties... looks like they are aiming to do the same again.

[BloodFetish]

I have a hard time believing the Russians think they're fooling anyone on the international stage, and I don't think they particularly care how they're perceived.

Mostly I think they are posturing for their own people, to keep control and gain support for the "special military operation" in Ukraine. Creating "existential threats" against Mother Russia is one of their tools.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by you&me

Sort of serious question - why are the Russians so bad at all of this?

Like, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there have been and are great Russian minds throughout history... Why on earth are there so many obvious ineptitudes on display through all of this? Like, the 3 SIM cards - that was laughable, but also believable as it could boil down to some idiot in the field... But things like this "assassination attempt" on the Kremlin... Who looks at that and thinks 'that's good enough to show the world' and who do they think they're fooling?

I think it's as a result of decades of all decisions being made centrally rather than by the people closest to the actual situation. That and a deeply ingrained culture of fear, that if you don't exactly follow a direct order to the letter there will be severe consequences. I think those two reasons are primarily why the USSR failed and why any heavily centrally planned society is eventually doomed to file.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I think it's as a result of decades of all decisions being made centrally rather than by the people closest to the actual situation. That and a deeply ingrained culture of fear, that if you don't exactly follow a direct order to the letter there will be severe consequences. I think those two reasons are primarily why the USSR failed and why any heavily centrally planned society is eventually doomed to file.

Yep, and it’s exactly why they are not gaining any ground in Ukraine, and why they’d get absolutely dummied by NATO militaries.

They are paralyzed by the culture of centralized decision making, which more often than not, is incompetent and corrupt.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

A seat of government would be a valid target in a war. Of course, this war is illegal so I don't know.

Not that it matters anyway. They've been trying to kill Zelenskyy since Day 1.

Yes, but they've 'officially' refrained from direct attacks on Ukrainian leadership. This could give them 'justification' for actual missile strikes.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Russian domestic audience to justify another round of mobilizations and counter the Ukrainian counter offensive. We've seen US rubes gullible enough to believe GOP lies, there are arguably much more of that type of person in Russia.

We've seen throwing meat at the Ukrainians manage to stall the counter offensives last year in Kharkiv and Donbass, at a cost of 100K Russian casualties... looks like they are aiming to do the same again.

How many times can they scrape that barrel? The prisons must already be emptied of desperate prisoners willing to die to avoid living out their life sentences.

I guess every year they have a new cohort of a 1 million or so (maybe less) males turning 18 that they can coerce into joining?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Yes, but they've 'officially' refrained from direct attacks on Ukrainian leadership. This could give them 'justification' for actual missile strikes.

They had all kinds of plans to capture and/or assassinate Zelensky already and have failed

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

They had all kinds of plans to capture and/or assassinate Zelensky already and have failed

I’m aware of that, but those were all ‘clandestine’, though like most Russian actions completely obvious. The potential is to escalate to open decapitation attempts.

If someone ‘attacks your capital’ in an ‘obvious assassination attempt’ the ‘natural reaction’ would be to retaliate in kind. (quotes indicate propaganda BS)

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I’m aware of that, but those were all ‘clandestine’, though like most Russian actions completely obvious. The potential is to escalate to open decapitation attempts.

If someone ‘attacks your capital’ in an ‘obvious assassination attempt’ the ‘natural reaction’ would be to retaliate in kind. (quotes indicate propaganda BS)

Right, but the international audience won't care and doesn't believe it, and if they had the capabilities they would've done it already without this "justification". Makes more sense that this is to shore up support for the "special military operation".



"They tried to kill the Fuhre... I mean our president! You can't be against punishing them!"

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by you&me

Sort of serious question - why are the Russians so bad at all of this?

Like, I'm not ignorant to the fact that there have been and are great Russian minds throughout history... Why on earth are there so many obvious ineptitudes on display through all of this? Like, the 3 SIM cards - that was laughable, but also believable as it could boil down to some idiot in the field... But things like this "assassination attempt" on the Kremlin... Who looks at that and thinks 'that's good enough to show the world' and who do they think they're fooling?

Russian and earlier the Eastern Bloc were always a "paper dragon". Their Nuclear threat is what made them scary.

I was never scared or concerned with any Eastern Bloc armies. They were/are all #### compared to their NATO counterparts.