[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Funny thing with the Zadorov trade is CGY will essentially get a 2nd after all. They have the Canucks' very own 2026 3rd. Which looks like it'll be 65th overall.

Nice to catch a break like that. Craig playing 3D chess.

Technically 64th since Ottawa forfeits a pick too

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Funny thing with the Zadorov trade is CGY will essentially get a 2nd after all. They have the Canucks' very own 2026 3rd. Which looks like it'll be 65th overall.

Nice to catch a break like that. Craig playing 3D chess.

Hadn’t thought of that
They will have two early thirds. Good ammo to move to get another second if the draft falls in a way where there is a guy they like

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

For years now people have been complaining that the Flames weren’t building through the draft. now it’s prospects they want?

It's also strange since the Flames past 2 drafts have been excellent. You'd think people would want more of our own picks if that trend continues. I do.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Because you still need to ice a team. And you will have a few vets, you're not going to dress 6 20-year olds on the blueline so Wolf gets shellacked every game, that would be very unwise.

They will have a mix of vets and young guys. Like right now. You can't dress all prospects just because we want to see them play.

I suppose.

Just feels like getting a replacement level d in the offseason would be just fine, if we agree that this team is set to be far WORSE next year.

Again, maybe they trade him before the deadline or in the offseason then I suppose it’s fine. But pretty sure the flames are intending on this helping them to be good next year….

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It's also strange since the Flames past 2 drafts have been excellent. You'd think people would want more of our own picks if that trend continues. I do.

Well they want prospects instead of the 29 year old D ….

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Andersson was a 2nd round pick

53rd overall. The 2nd that the Flames get back for him is likely to be… oh, somewhere close to 53rd overall. The worst it can possibly be is 64th.

For a possible drop of 11 places, they got another 1st, a marginal prospect, and a roster player. That's if you completely ignore the value of actually getting 584 NHL games out of that 53rd-overall pick.

Which I suppose I get, because I know the Flames totally had the option of forfeiting all their games for the last ten years and it wouldn't have hurt their business a lick. People are just as happy to buy season tickets for games that aren't even played, as long as there are lots of picks and prospects in the system. That's the real reason why people pay NHL ticket prices!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by #-3

It's asset management insurance.

Conroy wanted 2x1st and a moonshot prospect worth of value, Vegas conditionally gave that to him, and threw in a movable asset as compassion for putting conditions on his asking price.

Plus, no one has mentioned - Vegas has a max roster and is also at max contracts. They had to get rid of a D to make their roster size work. And they weren’t trading Hanifin, Theodore or Korczak, and Calgary wouldn’t have wanted Hutton, Lauzon or McNabb. Whitecloud was the only D that they could divest to make the deal work at all.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Whitecloud was included though. I don't know if I consider it a rebuild trade, more a retool.

But the picks are nice. I don't know. Ugh.

Money in, Money out. It's an asset of a position that we're overloaded with.

I view Whitecloud as an asset-add, and salary balance.

Would you be happier if Whitecloud was just omitted? Gain as many assets as you can in any trade when you're doing quantity.

Even if he isn't traded right away, he likely will be in the next 1-2 years - bang, more return.

Like I said, it's a slog.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

For years now people have been complaining that the Flames weren’t building through the draft. now it’s prospects they want?

Yeah, it seems like all we hear every year is "It's all about picks, picks, picks".

[Mr.Coffee]

I read somewhere in this thread that Calgary was rumoured to not let Andersson negotiate an extension with Vegas, just other teams. Anyone know why that would be? Wouldn’t you get a better return that way?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

For years now people have been complaining that the Flames weren’t building through the draft. now it’s prospects they want?

From my perspective, I actually want the picks more than the prospects.

I want the picks in the hands of our scouting staff, because ultimately this organization is only going to go as far as those scouts, and the execution on draft day will take them. Get them picks, let them get better through experience, and give them the confidence and room to take big ass swings on draft day.

[renny]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The 1st round pick is a 1st round pick.

The 2nd round pick is a 2nd round pick.

You don't get to round those down to make things seem worse. We have no idea where Vegas will finish over the next 2-3 years.

exactly! just look at winnipeg!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I read somewhere in this thread that Calgary was rumoured to not let Andersson negotiate an extension with Vegas, just other teams. Anyone know why that would be? Wouldn’t you get a better return that way?

According to one source I read, Andersson told Conroy shortly before the trade that he wasn't interested in negotiating an extension with any team. At that point, there was nothing to gain by giving permission.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I read somewhere in this thread that Calgary was rumoured to not let Andersson negotiate an extension with Vegas, just other teams. Anyone know why that would be? Wouldn’t you get a better return that way?

Boston was the only team (I think Frank maybe said LA did as well? Haven't listened yet) that pitched a "with extension" trade offer that Conroy thought was good enough, and thus got the permission to negotiate.

Ultimately it didn't matter though because Raz said he's not signing anywhere right now. Vegas likely did put forward the most appealing "no extension" offer because they've long had confidence they can get him to extend, whereas no other team has that confidence.

[iloveicedhockey]

When I think top C prospect, I do not think of Fraser Minten. He might have been the top C prospect in one of the worst prospect pools in the league, I suppose.

At least someone we know will be able to put something on his whiteboard again!

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Boston was the only team (I think Frank maybe said LA did as well? Haven't listened yet) that pitched a "with extension" trade offer that Conroy thought was good enough, and thus got the permission to negotiate.

Ultimately it didn't matter though because Raz said he's not signing anywhere right now. Vegas likely did put forward the most appealing "no extension" offer because they've long had confidence they can get him to extend, whereas no other team has that confidence.

I doubt it happens, but I hope Andersson walks to free agency, and doesn’t sign with Vegas.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

According to one source I read, Andersson told Conroy shortly before the trade that he wasn't interested in negotiating an extension with any team. At that point, there was nothing to gain by giving permission.

Given this info, I don't see how so many posters can criticize Conroy for the return. Andersson refusing to sign extensions (which he has every right to do), limited the return. No team was going to pay a huge price for a rental.

[GG51]

If Whitecloud is a serviceable top 4 D without offence, why not trade Weegar instead of him? for a worse and rebuilding team, maybe Whitecloud = Weegar, while the trade value difference is huge? team is worse, Weegar’s value could not be higher. And should make room for young RD to play and develop

[Royle9]

I will add, and I know that CGY has done a pretty poor job in the PR department thanks to Donny Maloney, but I don’t believe they’ll be flipping Whitecloud.

It would look even more silly than the rebiggle incident to post chatter with Whitecloud about his excitement to join CGY and be part of what they “trying to do up here” and how he can’t wait to be a Flame, to turn around and trade him in a few weeks.

That would be pretty cut throat, and we know how much they are about feelings up here (like it or hate it).

It would be an absolute grand slam to flip him for another 1st for SURE but I don’t see it happening. What I do hope Craig takes from this, now that he’s been burned once again at crunch time, is that he capitalizes on the Coleman and Kadri markets NOW and not sit idle and waste any more chances of a 3 peat on lack of working kindly with UFA destination talks.

And don’t kid yourselves, I give him until after the Olympics to extend in VGK.
He’s already come out in the summer and said Vegas would be a place for him long term.

It’s still a “meh” trade to me, the only positive I’ll take for now is it should help us get some more “L’s” but I personally can’t call it a win for CGY with the conditions on the picks.

Very late 1st is essentially a 2nd and a late 2nd a 3rd at the end of the day.
Yea not bad for a “rental” but we should all know that’s not really what it is, he rug pulled at the 11th hour and Craig was forced to pivot.

Though if I’m being honest I had a hard time believing he would sign long term in Boston, I don’t see them competing for a cup any time soon.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Part of the issue is Lindholm was having a poor year while Ras is having a career year

But I don’t think 40 games play into GMs opinions as much as recency bias for fans

Also, the player we picked with the Canucks pick from the Lindholm deal is Matvei Gridin who looks like he could be a player for us. Whereas, these Andersson picks have not even been made yet, so they are less easy to get excited about, perhaps.