The Tariff Thread

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sorry guys, climate doesn't matter anymore. That war is lost.

In Alberta the Only Goal is Coal

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I dunno, do we actually trust the government in Canada (at any level) to diversify away from the USA, grow new energy markets, and then look at the US market is unnecessary?

I mean it's great that we are looking to open new markets, but IMO all it's going to do is create new revenue streams for the government to waste. It's not like we are looking at leaning out the US market anytime soon; it's always going to be there and be a critical revenue stream no matter how much overseas egress we create.

Maybe I'm being cynical. Probably not though.

Well considering we have one of the world's largest uranium deposits in SK we should start selling nuclear weapons.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Well considering we have one of the world's largest uranium deposits in SK we should start selling nuclear powerplants and weapons.

Well if the Iraq war taught us anything I'd say that's a quick way to get invaded in the name of "global security" or whatever it was.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sorry guys, climate doesn't matter anymore. That war is lost.

All the recent climate change momentum is just driven by left wing grift.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sorry guys, climate doesn't matter anymore. That war is lost.

David Suzuki can sleep on your couch while he gets back on his feet.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Climate 100% matters but Canada can't pretend we're a shining beacon of hope that other countries will follow. We cannot continue to sacrifice the future of this country pretending anyone else is going to follow our lead.

Ya, it's a global "nobody cares". So unfortunately that's the reality we are left with. But I do agree, no point in shooting ourselves in the foot for things nobody cares about. Humanity has decided this is our path, so buckle up. It also means no complain about no snow at the hills, droughts, smoke days etc. We've bought the ticket.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Table 5

David Suzuki can sleep on your couch while he gets back on his feet.

Uh, I certainly wasn't taking his side, it was a statement of fact. David can sleep in one of his many homes. He'll be just fine. Well, angry, but fine.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I dunno, do we actually trust the government in Canada (at any level) to diversify away from the USA, grow new energy markets, and then look at the US market is unnecessary?

I mean it's great that we are looking to open new markets, but IMO all it's going to do is create new revenue streams for the government to waste. It's not like we are looking at leaning out the US market anytime soon; it's always going to be there and be a critical revenue stream no matter how much overseas egress we create.

Maybe I'm being cynical. Probably not though.

Well it’s not just the government, we need the actual companies to try and diversify themselves. Remember our new pipeline to the West coast isn't full, there are rail cars available to get oil to port/refineries on the East Coast. Reason it doesn't happen is that it isn't economic for companies, generally selling to the States is the most profitable. New lines to the East Coast would have high tolls. If we actually want to implement diversification it would require government subsidies.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, it's a global "nobody cares". So unfortunately that's the reality we are left with. But I do agree, no point in shooting ourselves in the foot for things nobody cares about. Humanity has decided this is our path, so buckle up. It also means no complain about no snow at the hills, droughts, smoke days etc. We've bought the ticket.

I prefer the analogy of being first to chop off our own dinks to stop the AIDS epidemic.

And of course we can continue to complain about those things, we do hypocritical things all the time.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, it's a global "nobody cares". So unfortunately that's the reality we are left with. But I do agree, no point in shooting ourselves in the foot for things nobody cares about. Humanity has decided this is our path, so buckle up. It also means no complain about no snow at the hills, droughts, smoke days etc. We've bought the ticket.

Do you think that Canada not building infrastructure for carbon-based energy is helping the global climate crisis? I don't think it is.

I think every developed country should be exclusively using renewable and nuclear sources for electricity. But until that happens, it better that democratic countries use Canadian based carbon energy instead of Russian, Saudi, Iranian, Qatari, etc. At least we will take some environmental precautions compared to those regimes. Coincidentally, Canada can also supply fuel for nuclear reactors.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Humanity has decided this is our path, so buckle up. It also means no complain about no snow at the hills, droughts, smoke days etc. We've bought the ticket.

The better path has always been to mitigate environmental challenges through progress via new technology and human ingenuity...not by stonewalling or rolling back standards of living and security.

But you're right, there's no free lunch. Every decision has a trade-off.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Uh, I certainly wasn't taking his side, it was a statement of fact. David can sleep in one of his many homes. He'll be just fine. Well, angry, but fine.

He's coming anyway.

[Mr.Coffee]

You guys all see the report that US refiners are now working with US administration to recalibrate their facilities to use domestic oil supplies?

Now THAT is an existential threat to Canada. They get that done, and we still don’t have enough non-US export capacity for our oil, then we really will have no leverage with them in a tariff war.

We should have started pipeline construction to Prince Rupert on Monday.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The better path has always been to mitigate environmental challenges through progress via new technology and human ingenuity...not by stonewalling or rolling back standards of living and security.

But you're right, there's no free lunch. Every decision has a trade-off.

He's coming anyway.

I can assure you, my couch is not up to the standards Suzuki is used to.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Do you think that Canada not building infrastructure for carbon-based energy is helping the global climate crisis? I don't think it is.

I think every developed country should be exclusively using renewable and nuclear sources for electricity. But until that happens, it better that democratic countries use Canadian based carbon energy instead of Russian, Saudi, Iranian, Qatari, etc. At least we will take some environmental precautions compared to those regimes. Coincidentally, Canada can also supply fuel for nuclear reactors.

I've always been fine with LNG exports to reduce coal dependence, where it makes sense. Not building new export oil pipelines should, in an economically perfect world reduce oil usage. It looked for a time we may be heading that way, but humanity gave up on pricing externalities, so it didn't work. I think it really could have gone either way 10 years ago. It's clear which way it has gone now, though I don't think that's anything to celebrate.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Do you think that Canada not building infrastructure for carbon-based energy is helping the global climate crisis? I don't think it is.

I think every developed country should be exclusively using renewable and nuclear sources for electricity. But until that happens, it better that democratic countries use Canadian based carbon energy instead of Russian, Saudi, Iranian, Qatari, etc. At least we will take some environmental precautions compared to those regimes. Coincidentally, Canada can also supply fuel for nuclear reactors.

We have better environmental precautions, but let's be honest - the oil sands product is not in any way shape or form a better option for the environment. Something like 30% of all natural gas burnt in Canada is used in the oil sands, and the product needs significant additional energy to process downstream.

Now gas is a different story. We should be pushing that out as fast as we can to displace higher carbon fuels.

We need to bifurcate the O&G discussion into separate oil and gas discussions.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

You guys all see the report that US refiners are now working with US administration to recalibrate their facilities to use domestic oil supplies?

Now THAT is an existential threat to Canada. They get that done, and we still don’t have enough non-US export capacity for our oil, then we really will have no leverage with them in a tariff war.

We should have started pipeline construction to Prince Rupert on Monday.

I could only find this article on it. It doesn't go into much depth though.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-u...222239813.html

It was something they said during an earnings call so I would personally take it with a grain of salt. Switching to light crude would be a lengthy and costly process and doesn't make much sense as a national strategy. They currently make more money selling their light crude and buying cheaper heavy crude to refine.

https://www.soscip.org/why-america-s...-canadian-oil/

Edit: I agree with you though, let's get energy and any other Canadian assets we can flowing east-west.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Do you think that Canada not building infrastructure for carbon-based energy is helping the global climate crisis? I don't think it is.

I think every developed country should be exclusively using renewable and nuclear sources for electricity. But until that happens, it better that democratic countries use Canadian based carbon energy instead of Russian, Saudi, Iranian, Qatari, etc. At least we will take some environmental precautions compared to those regimes. Coincidentally, Canada can also supply fuel for nuclear reactors.

Is that something we tell ourselves to make us feel better? You can argue that, from a human rights perspective, Canada is more socially responsible. But from an purely environmental standpoint, how do we know Canada is contributing less damage to the environment with our oilsands extractions vs. what the Saudis or Russia's doing extracting their oil in less environmentally damaging ways?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, it's a global "nobody cares". So unfortunately that's the reality we are left with. But I do agree, no point in shooting ourselves in the foot for things nobody cares about. Humanity has decided this is our path, so buckle up. It also means no complain about no snow at the hills, droughts, smoke days etc. We've bought the ticket.

Given that we don't matter in the context of emissions, it's practical treatment is more of a question of how much we want to punish our poorer people with high energy, shelter, heating/cooling, food & transportation costs to feel better about ourselves in this space.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Uh, I certainly wasn't taking his side, it was a statement of fact. David can sleep in one of his many homes. He'll be just fine. Well, angry, but fine.

Why would he be angry? He genuinely couldnt GAF about the environment, thats our problem.

Do as Suzuki says, not as he does or is he too busy taking a private jet to another Climate Conference.

Suzuki is a gigantic hypocrite.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by indes

I could only find this article on it. It doesn't go into much depth though.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-u...222239813.html

It was something they said during an earnings call so I would personally take it with a grain of salt. Switching to light crude would be a lengthy and costly process and doesn't make much sense as a national strategy. They currently make more money selling their light crude and buying cheaper heavy crude to refine.

https://www.soscip.org/why-america-s...-canadian-oil/

Edit: I agree with you though, let's get energy and any other Canadian assets we can flowing east-west.

The second article talks about the (unsavoury) potential to switch to Russia or Venezuela as alternate sources of heavy oil, which makes zero sense except in an F*** Canada strategy.