High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

That's all it takes to get someone turfed now?

Dear Mr Mansbridge,

Justin Trudeau touched my front bum whilst slathering peanut butter on himself.

Sincerely
2StonedBirds

There's a front bum? I was born without a front bum???

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

It's unclear if what he did was even criminal even if everything being reported is even true. In both cases the girls said "not interested" and he took them to their respective residences.

And I get that, but now we've created a system where the accused no longer has the real right to face his accuser, and hows that fair and proper?

I'm all for #metoo, and woman turfing men that are using their power or influence or anything else to abuse or harass or make right.

But its also become a incredibly powerful weapon, where an accuser can point a finger and basically destroy a person in two seconds, oh and at this point because of the shift in winds, if the person didn't do it, it doesn't matter, because a denial is now an admission of guilt.

[GirlySports]

how bout Kenney? when does someone get him? March 2019?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And I get that, but now we've created a system where the accused no longer has the real right to face his accuser, and hows that fair and proper?

I'm all for #metoo, and woman turfing men that are using their power or influence or anything else to abuse or harass or make right.

But its also become a incredibly powerful weapon, where an accuser can point a finger and basically destroy a person in two seconds, oh and at this point because of the shift in winds, if the person didn't do it, it doesn't matter, because a denial is now an admission of guilt.

I think we are in agreement. As mentioned in a previous post, I saw several "I believe all women" posts before Patrick Brown even responded. It's just assumed if you have a vagina you are incapable of lying. Nevertheless, giving the timing of this, he has to go if the Cons want to win the election.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And I get that, but now we've created a system where the accused no longer has the real right to face his accuser, and hows that fair and proper?

I'm all for #metoo, and woman turfing men that are using their power or influence or anything else to abuse or harass or make right.

But its also become a incredibly powerful weapon, where an accuser can point a finger and basically destroy a person in two seconds, oh and at this point because of the shift in winds, if the person didn't do it, it doesn't matter, because a denial is now an admission of guilt.

I think the Aziz situation gave me a bit of optimism with all of this. Many strong and visible women came out and said “hold on a minute” and it certainly didn’t (yet) have the negative impact on his career that I imagine the author of the article and accuser hoped for.

Not to say that people aren’t incapable of lying and saying a situation was much worse than it was and with no witnesses, then it’s a he said she said.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

how bout Kenney? when does someone get him? March 2019?

You're barking up the wrong tree with Kenney.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Wormius

There's a front bum? I was born without a front bum???

It's 2018. You can have whatever bum you want.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by morgin

I think the Aziz situation gave me a bit of optimism with all of this. Many strong and visible women came out and said “hold on a minute” and it certainly didn’t (yet) have the negative impact on his career that I imagine the author of the article and accuser hoped for.

Not to say that people aren’t incapable of lying and saying a situation was much worse than it was and with no witnesses, then it’s a he said she said.

Difference was the debate there wasn't whether what happened was true, it was whether what happened was assault. It was assumed that her account of the incident was accurate.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You're barking up the wrong tree with Kenney.

nope. not touching this.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I think we are in agreement. As mentioned in a previous post, I saw several "I believe all women" posts before Patrick Brown even responded. It's just assumed if you have a vagina you are incapable of lying. Nevertheless, giving the timing of this, he has to go if the Cons want to win the election.

My fear, while not fear, that's the wrong word selection, but my concern is that this has the possibility of being an inverse Salem Witch hunt.

In Salem, if somebody wronged someone, of if they wanted your land, or your husband, or anything else it was as simple as "She's a witch, I saw her singing and two days later I got sick". So over the cliff she goes, if she floats up and flies away she's a witch and must report back for a proper beheading and immolation.

However if she falls to her death, she's either an innocent, or a particularly incompetent witch.

The worry as the #Metoo movement moves along is that there are going to be innocent people that are caught in the net with very little to no recourse, and denials will be treated as lying. Lives will be destroyed that didn't need to be, but we as a society are going to have to answer the question, are we ok with collateral damage here.

We can't encourage or force people to go to the police or file charges. We also can't encourage woman to video tape every date or meeting that we have with a man, or a man with a man or whatever.

But at some point doesn't there need to be some process or some burden of proof?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

There's a front bum? I was born without a front bum???

You have to earn it.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Like others it sounds like Brown wasn't doing anything other than being a creep. Apparently it was well known around Barrie that he was a creep. And yet he still made it this far despite that knowledge.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Like others it sounds like Brown wasn't doing anything other than being a creep. Apparently it was well known around Barrie that he was a creep. And yet he still made it this far despite that knowledge.

In Barrie they tend to just blend in to the crowd....

[CliffFletcher]

While false allegations are possible (and increasingly likely if people can benefit from them with no risk to themselves), the much more common problem is a lack of social consensus on which sexual overtures are acceptable and which aren't.

With the Brown allegations, in one case the issue was a boss-employee relationship. It's gotta be clear to people by now that you can't make passes at your employees. Period. (Employees making passes at bosses is a whole other matter, and one that nobody seems to want to talk about). The question in Brown's case is was that the norm 10 years ago? I think it was. So that alone is probably enough to qualify as legitimate harassment.

In both cases, the age difference and alcohol were also issues. Those aren't so clear. Social norms over age differences are changing. 30 years ago a sexual encounter between a 29 year old and a 19 year old wasn't considered gross. To increasing numbers of people today it is. And when it comes to alcohol, social norms and expectations are all over the place. Some people cheerfully engage in sexual activity while drunk, others feel it robs them of consent, while some don't feel bad about it at the time, but regret it later. I doubt that thorny issue is going to be solved any time soon.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

My fear, while not fear, that's the wrong word selection, but my concern is that this has the possibility of being an inverse Salem Witch hunt.

In Salem, if somebody wronged someone, of if they wanted your land, or your husband, or anything else it was as simple as "She's a witch, I saw her singing and two days later I got sick". So over the cliff she goes, if she floats up and flies away she's a witch and must report back for a proper beheading and immolation.

However if she falls to her death, she's either an innocent, or a particularly incompetent witch.

The worry as the #Metoo movement moves along is that there are going to be innocent people that are caught in the net with very little to no recourse, and denials will be treated as lying. Lives will be destroyed that didn't need to be, but we as a society are going to have to answer the question, are we ok with collateral damage here.

We can't encourage or force people to go to the police or file charges. We also can't encourage woman to video tape every date or meeting that we have with a man, or a man with a man or whatever.

But at some point doesn't there need to be some process or some burden of proof?

I can't see innocent people being caught in the net. I think there has to be some history about a person for the women to finally say enough let's get this guy. There are thousands of politicians in Canada and the US. There aren't accusations against just anyone and everyone for any reason. It had to be something swept under the carpet for years that people know. Like he's been a creep in Barrie.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

That's all it takes to get someone turfed now?

Dear Mr Mansbridge,

Justin Trudeau touched my front bum whilst slathering peanut butter on himself.

Sincerely
2StonedBirds

Now get that published by a credible media organization with documentation that your were in the the same place he was along with social media posts about you going back to his house with him.

If you look at the second Brown accusation everything but what occurred in the bedroom appears to be well documented. So at a minimum got an employee drunk and he took her back to his place while he was sober. That is the best case scenario and while that isn't end your politics career worth it's pretty creepy behaviour. But that is the best light you can paint him in right now. Also his denile sucks. He clearly is trying to avoid being got in a verifiable lie because he doesn't know how much evidence CTV had. Compare it to the Aziz denile and apology where it was I believed we participated as two consenting adults and I'm sorry for hurting her.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by GGG

Now get that published by a credible media organization with documentation that your were in the the same place he was along with social media posts about you going back to his house with him.

If you look at the second Brown accusation everything but what occurred in the bedroom appears to be well documented. So at a minimum got an employee drunk and he took her back to his place while he was sober. That is the best case scenario and while that isn't end your politics career worth it's pretty creepy behaviour. But that is the best light you can paint him in right now. Also his denile sucks. He clearly is trying to avoid being got in a verifiable lie because he doesn't know how much evidence CTV had. Compare it to the Aziz denile and apology where it was I believed we participated as two consenting adults and I'm sorry for hurting her.

If he’s denying that what happened was assault, then I’d say he is correct.

By her own admission, he stopped his advance when he was asked to and took her home. She told people what happens and none of those people felt it was assault either. She also didn’t feel unsafe around him since she sought out t employment with him the next year. But now, five years later and on the eve on an election where he was the front runner, it’s an issue that she is comfortable enough to go to the media with, but not to file a police report.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

how bout Kenney? when does someone get him? March 2019?

Dare to dream ....

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Dare to dream ....

Sorry - wait. I mean, I get that this is a joke. But it's a joke premised on the idea that it would be a good thing if Jason Kenney sexually assaulted someone, because that could be used against him politically?

... Seriously?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sorry - wait. I mean, I get that this is a joke. But it's a joke premised on the idea that it would be a good thing if Jason Kenney sexually assaulted someone, because that could be used against him politically?

... Seriously?

Yes...he is serious.