Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[GioforPM]

Finally listened to the King conference. His tone was bad, he overstated a bunch. But if you dive down, some of his complaints about the City's spin on their offer were legit. Others weren't of course.

[Freeway]

So how's it going, gang?

[OmegaV4]

Originally Posted by stone hands

"I defy anyone to name me one thing Calgarians have to be more proud of than the flames" is probably the most egregious thing he has ever said to be honest, and he has said a lot of stupid things(every time he opens his mouth)

Yeah...he did say that. And it only reinforces how much of an idiot he is.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Freeway

So how's it going, gang?

It's great. How was it with the other kids down at the rink today?

[Minnie]

Reading on different social media platforms and King and his comments are going over about as well as a fart in church.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I do. Just not on my residence.

I'm genuinely asking, but what does that mean exactly.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

CSEC isn't getting the city to put in $180 million without getting something back. Property taxes are all they get out of it in this proposal (and sudsidized at that). They aren't going to get out of property taxes without replacing it with something else about the same value.

As Nenshi said in his conference, it's either CSEC owns the building, and pays property tax (like everyone else), or the city owns the building, and CSEC pays rent (all other things being the same). It really doesn't matter too much to the city. There is negotiating room in the exact structure of a deal, but in terms of dollar values going in and out, the city has given very close to their best offer.

From what I gather, correct if wrong, they currently don't pay property tax on the Dome or pay rent. Is that correct?

If so, then again you can see how the city contribution would be basically zero sum; we will front you money, but charge you in other ways that we currently don't.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

I'm genuinely asking, but what does that mean exactly.

He doesn't want to answer genuinely and wants to let you know he owns another property in Calgary which he knows isn't helpful to your question.

[Par]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

A few random theories:

1. The Flames want the Edmonton deal on the arena, but more importantly they also want to develop the area around it. It's pulled out from under them with the CalgaryNEXT proposal and there's no opportunity for it in this concept with the East Village and CMLC.

2. This is probably giving them CSEC too much credit, but maybe they're just biding their time until the Olympic bid. There's bound to be additional funding from the other levels of government that would get thrown towards a new arena and redevelopment of the area (e.g. Athletes Village then in turn condos). There's no way they would demolish the Saddledome if we won the bid.

3. I wouldn't be surprised if Nenshi turns his new recently released area concept into a component of an Olympic bid. He looks like a champ if it happens.

4. The arena thing has stagnated for several years and it's always been one of King's responsibilities. He has never come off looking prepared, cohesive, or even done a good job of giving their perspective in public, let alone in private for all we know. Perhaps the owners have realized he's a roadblock to getting it done and they're ready to throw someone else on the project. I can hardly wait to see how he presents their proposal.

If they don't get a deal they like, they might just wait until the Olympic bid.

[calgaryblood]

If anyone wants to re-visit the Edmonton arena deal here it is in point format

https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...agreement.aspx

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Par

If they don't get a deal they like, they might just wait until the Olympic bid.

Makes a lot of sense to wait to see if a 2026 bid would be successful. If it is successful, CSEC would be able to get better than a 50/50 deal.

[robaur]

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Finally listened to the King conference. His tone was bad, he overstated a bunch. But if you dive down, some of his complaints about the City's spin on their offer were legit. Others weren't of course.

Was it the part where land shouldn't be counted and the inane rambling when asked if they need money from the city that doesn't get paid back?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Fire

Makes a lot of sense to wait to see if a 2026 bid would be successful. If it is successful, CSEC would be able to get better than a 50/50 deal.

It may be the way this thing plays out at this point.

The only other real potential bid at this point is Innsbruck Austria AFAIK. They have already held 3 different Olympic games including the youth Olys just 4 years ago. That would put Calgary in the drivers seat IMO as long as they have a solid bid put together.

KK said a lot of really questionable things today but one of the things he was bang on about was his remark that Nenshi's claim of hosting the Olympics in Calgary but farming out its premier event to other cities including Edmonton was......both odd and egregious.

If it is the case that Calgary goes ahead with the bid and wins it, then the Flames just sit back and likely get a new arena for a whole lot less than they have offered to this point. Its a bit of a gamble but one that might be worth taking as they only need to wait 22 months more to find out.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Was it the part where land shouldn't be counted and the inane rambling when asked if they need money from the city that doesn't get paid back?

Maybe it was the part where calgary isn't even that great of a market anyways and they could go to a number of more successful hockey markets(that dont currently have an nhl team) if it was only about the money

[direwolf]

Just watched the King presser, and I'm not impressed. What a f'n a**clown. Dude comes across like a petulant, spoiled child who can't get everything he wants.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

He doesn't want to answer genuinely and wants to let you know he owns another property in Calgary which he knows isn't helpful to your question.

He's allowed to have an opinion on city funding. Stop acting like everyone wanting the city to not spend a dime actually owns property and thus pays property taxes.

If he works and spends money in the city that's contributing, comparable to people who just pay rent.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by stone hands

"I defy anyone to name me one thing Calgarians have to be more proud of than the flames" is probably the most egregious thing he has ever said to be honest, and he has said a lot of stupid things(every time he opens his mouth)

Easy, the 1988 Winter Olympics. It beats anything the Flames have done by a fair margin. Hell, I'd almost say that the Stampede has done more for the image of Calgary than the Flames.


I'm not sure if it's just because I'm getting older, but sports are meaning less and less to me all the time. Perhaps it's the overt focus on the business and financial aspect of any franchise that gets discussed ad nauseam around any player or personnel decision. It's too close to a work reality, where tough decisions are made and things generally suck for the individual to maintain the strength of the company. It's palatable to a degree because there's a certain inescapable reality to it that must be at least considered, but I follow sports because I want to escape that reality and cheer for some athletic heroes for a couple hours in my evening. All of that is overshadowed by "playing up to his contract", or being an "overpaid and declining asset" that is so pervasive in the thought process now.

So all of that has been forced into something that I used to take pure and unadulterated joy in, a hockey game. Simple, yet inspiring.

But now....now I have to sit here and listen to this petty squabbling by high end executive millionaire who represent absentee billionaires, telling me it's a goddam privilege to have my childhood heroes continue to play in the city I was raised in, so we better be okay with ponying up the money, or else. It's too much. I refuse to let my happy memories be held ransom just so billionaires don't have to invest as much of their own money into something that will continue to make them incredibly wealthy. You know, the way every other ####ing business works.

This is the new norm. At a certain point, having professional sports as an entertainment option isn't worth all this other negative bull#### that comes along with it. We are now at the point where the games themselves are a distraction from the real stories of financing and salary cap management, rather than have the sport be the focal point.

This is just all so ugly, and I don't think I can forgive the Flames executive group for letting it get this far.



Just how bad is it when the Panthers, one of the worst run franchises in the league who have also had issues relating to the locals in regards to value of arena deals, look laudable in comparison to the Flames?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

He's allowed to have an opinion on city funding. Stop acting like everyone wanting the city to not spend a dime actually owns property and thus pays property taxes.

If he works and spends money in the city that's contributing, comparable to people who just pay rent.

Yeah I just dont understand the sentiment that people who dont live in Calgary, cant have an opinion (either way) on something that affects the team they cheer for.

Its absurd.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah I just dont understand the sentiment that people who dont live in Calgary, cant have an opinion (either way) on something that affects the team they cheer for.

Its absurd.

Agree. I live thousands of kilometres away now but, having grown up in Calgary, I still want what (I think) is best for it.