[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Tinordi]

The other overlooked dimension throughout this discussion is practice.

It's not like Sven was only given 10 mins a night to prove his mettle and that was it.

He had ample opportunity to show his stuff, particularly his work ethic and eagerness to learn in practice.

That performance in many ways was more important to his handling than what he showed in games.

[EldrickOnIce]

If you 'call a player out', what you are asking them to do is prove you wrong. This can be a very successful strategy. Coach Sutter uses it often.
If this type of 'criticism' deflates instead of motivates a player, I suggest this player most likely lacks what it takes to be successful.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

If this type of 'criticism' deflates instead of motivates a player, I suggest this player most likely lacks what it takes to be successful.

It can also mean that the criticism was done badly. You could do it badly by picking on one particular player for a fault and ignoring the same fault in others, or by criticizing him for something that simply isn't his fault.

I can't help thinking of the Gong Show up the QE2, and how they would shame players into returning from injuries before they had healed. Remember what happened to Souray? He got a raw deal. I don't think Baertschi did.

In this particular case, I agree with you 100%.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

If you 'call a player out', what you are asking them to do is prove you wrong. This can be a very successful strategy. Coach Sutter uses it often.
If this type of 'criticism' deflates instead of motivates a player, I suggest this player most likely lacks what it takes to be successful.

Bingo. To add to that, you can't win with those players.

[EldrickOnIce]

How many times did Burke call Gaudreau tiny last summer? JG's responded, as he always has, by 'proving him wrong' .
Anyone think Bennett would be deflated if Burke called him out on something? I think he'd be pissed. And would prove him wrong (or kick his door in and throw down with him).

I want guys who respond like these two. And yes, these are the guys you will win with. And no, I believe that Baertschi is not.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The other overlooked dimension throughout this discussion is practice.

It's not like Sven was only given 10 mins a night to prove his mettle and that was it.

He had ample opportunity to show his stuff, particularly his work ethic and eagerness to learn in practice.

That performance in many ways ess more important to his handling than what he showed in games.

This.

He's played for Hartley, Sutter, Ward and now Huska.

Ward had some stuff to say about him, Huska mentioned his attitude has improved. Nobody has raved about him. Hartley, not so impressed, Sutter I can't really remember.

Further, he's also been seen by a total of four GM's: Sutter, Feaster, Burke and now Treliving.

He hasn't managed to stick in the NHL, nor stand out in the AHL, during any of these persons' watchful eyes. He's been given ample (or rather, same as everybody else) chance to prove he belongs.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Everybody jumping down the throats of de-Sven-ders (tm) and countering with 'proof' he was given ample opportunity this season are ignoring the fact that they are mainly referring to lately. Basicslly PPG for the last 30ish games isn't he? Doesn't seem like a complementary linemate for Bollig. Unless communication had broken down between management and his camp a while back, I find it surprising that the team was willing to trade off this asset using garbage minutes with Bollig as the NHL sample size in their sales pitch.

I had a lot of hope, but that's probably because he was the shining light in (but nowhere near the end) of what seemed like a dark, painfully long tunnel.

Imagine if we had traded him at the 2012 draft?

[Geeoff]

In regards to Burke's comments on Sven. I'm pretty sure he was asked about sending him to the AHL and he told the media why. I don't believe it was an unprovoked "attack". Most players would take it as a challenge but Sven's feelings were hurt and his performance in the AHL suffered.

[stone hands]

its not like burke called him terrible. he said he needed to play in all three zones

[Azure]

Well I have a hard time believing a coach like Hartley who has given young guys every chance in the world the last few years simply didn't give Sven enough of a chance. Like Tinordi mentioned, the work he did at practice was probably more telling than any game performance.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well I have a hard time believing a coach like Hartley who has given young guys every chance in the world the last few years simply didn't give Sven enough of a chance. Like Tinordi mentioned, the work he did at practice was probably more telling than any game performance.

It's not different than the treatment Wotherspoon recently got. He had been up with the club for over a week but didn't get into any games. I imagine he didn't show enough in practice in the coaches eyes to warrant getting into a game. If he was standing out in practice he would have played. Doesn't mean the coaches didn't like him or anything as they simply didn't think he was ready to suit up in a game based seeing him everyday in practice.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well I have a hard time believing a coach like Hartley who has given young guys every chance in the world the last few years simply didn't give Sven enough of a chance. Like Tinordi mentioned, the work he did at practice was probably more telling than any game performance.

As others have noted, every coach will have his favourites. It's natural human behaviour. We can surmise that Sven was not a favourite of Hartley. What we don't really know, is why. We can all guess, with the options running from "Hartley is irrational" to "Baertschi is entitled".


Dajazz said that Huska noted Baertschi's attitude "had improved". That, I'm afraid, is not a compliment. Given the outward appearance was that he tended to pout after being sent down, I can draw a picture of which way I tend to lean in terms of the "why" of Hartley's dislike.

[Psytic]

So Svens a bust, and Jankowski is trending towards 3rd liner as well. Is it safe to say our top end drafting didnt really improve at all from Sutter when Feaster was here? I guess thats why he was let go. I dont think its rocket sience to pick Monahan but other then that its not looking good. Lets hope0 Treliving has more success considering we wont be drafting a consensus top 5 pick this year.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Psytic

So Svens a bust, and Jankowski is trending towards 3rd liner as well. Is it safe to say our top end drafting didnt really improve at all from Sutter when Feaster was here? I guess thats why he was let go. I dont think its rocket sience to pick Monahan but other then that its not looking good. Lets hope0 Treliving has more success considering we wont be drafting a consensus top 5 pick this year.

Poirier looks to be a player, and there's still time for Klimchuk and Jankowski I think. But it's certainly starting to trend in that direction.

Thankfully finding gems like Johnny, Brodie, and Bouma in later rounds has taken some of that first round sting off.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Psytic

So Svens a bust

between #11 and #30 of the 2011 draft Sven is by far the best forward.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

between #11 and #30 of the 2011 draft Sven is by far the best forward.

Speaks to the weakness of that draft class more than anything.

[Poe969]

so you're saying it was a terrible draft? So getting a second rounder in a fairly deep draft is better than a first round bust from a crappy draft.

Flames made the right choice here and did very well in the trade. Sven doesn't look like he'll be an NHL talent. His draft class was pretty bad to begin with anyway but this coming year looks like a deep draft and we have an extra pick now thanks to Sven.

[Poe969]

nm double post

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

between #11 and #30 of the 2011 draft Sven is by far the best forward.

But not vs the later rounds.

God bless Monahan, up until him this team couldn't get a player in Rd. 1

[Bingo]

Its the Dustin Boyd argument all over again.

The Flames have played the hell out of rookies for each of the past two seasons. The die has been set. Show up, listen, show you respond to tweaks in your game from video, apply yourself and you'll get every opportunity.

Don't and you won't

Its how winning franchises are born. Playing guys that don't get it is why the Oilers are in so much trouble.

Asset management says time to move on.