Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MattyC

What's your plan for preventing the use of marijuana, for kids or adults? I'd be interested to know how easy it is.

Well, as a lot of us have argued - legalization greatly increases use among the young. So don't legalize it.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, as a lot of us have argued - legalization greatly increases use among the young. So don't legalize it.

I'll concede to the short term increase. Using greatly (along with your highly dangerous claim from before) is hyperbole at its finest.

There's still nothing keeping it out of the hands of kids, as you may have noticed, kids use it regardless. Skill ask again, how is this easily preventable?

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Dion

We live in a society where people who make bad choices end in most cases trying to blame others for their choices. Examples: Smokers suing tobacco companies for the effects cigarettes has had on their health. If pot was legalised and the association between weed and psychosis was proven to be true those same individuals would sue also.

The harmfullness of cigarettes was fervently hidden and lied about by tobacco companies for decades. Everyone knows whats up when it comes to weed.

Empower individuals to make good choices by making knowledge and discussion available, don't wrap everyone in bubble wrap and tell them it's for their own good.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, as a lot of us have argued - legalization greatly increases use among the young. So don't legalize it.

And even if that is the case, it does not address the problems which arise from having to substance be illegal.

Hey look, it's almost as if we are trying to reduce gang activity by legalizing, not trying to reduce the incidence of psychosis from 1 in 95000 to 1 in 100000.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Dion

Look in the mirror first before you say such things. Yes Peter has been sarcastic at times (including you) but for the most part he has posted his evidence and tried to support it.

Oddly enough on my journey to the ignore button I noticed you are 1 of Peters 5 friends. We really need to shake this standing up for friends no matter what business. See cops in america as a reference for why this can become a bad thing.

Please compare my most 'sarcastic' post to the majority of peters posts. Never said I objected to fighting fire with fire, but it's the truth and you can only carry a debate for so long before it devolves into what peter decided to make it.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Oh and by the way, my "common sense" argument is that if you take away half of the market of a business, the business will be forced to downsize. You would have to be Rachel Notley to disagree with me.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Haha, we all just got BIG DEAL'D.

Not at all, I just try to cut through BS and communicate information quickly. Studied biopsych in depth, learned a lot about many different drugs and the ways in which they influence human biology and psychology. Three main categories that distinguish how harmful it is likely to be

Addiction: cannabis relatively non-addictive (chemical dependence is the main factor here, e.g. nicotine, caffeine, most stimulants). Addictive pattern through psychological addiction.

Tolerance: Relatively low level in comparison to alcohol and other habit forming drugs.

Withdrawal: Relatively low

When compared to other dangerous drugs it's relatively harmless. The main danger is with youth that still have neuroplastic cortices and mentally ill individuals. There are many psychoactive compounds that can trigger anxiety and schizophrenic symptoms that may never subside. Bronchitis is common (dirty glass and disgusting materials used). Memory loss is correlated, sedentary behavior and diet also correlated to that. It's a complex substance so consensus is difficult to reach.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

And even if that is the case, it does not address the problems which arise from having to substance be illegal.

Hey look, it's almost as if we are trying to reduce gang activity by legalizing, not trying to reduce the incidence of psychosis from 1 in 95000 to 1 in 100000.

Agreed.

As a final comment on this, anyone who doesn't want it legalized because of the harm it has on teens brain development need to rethink what you're actually trying to achieve by arguing against legalization.

Many many teens are smoking weed in Canada. It's an issue right this moment, so please come up with a way to address the actual issue at hand.

- 10% of marijuana taxed revenue will go towards youth education on drugs.
- Marijuana drug dealers will actually be punished harshly for dealing to teens. Not only is it harmful for the black market to continue, but they are taking away tax dollars which will also be bad for the government.

Done, there's 2 solutions involving legalization that actually tries to address the actual issue. Please anyone feel free to come up with something better, refute it, or expand on it.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

How about the "good parenting" tax credit. If your child goes a year without answering "yes" on any survey asking if they have used drugs in the past year, then you receive credit.

I guarantee the incidence of drug use among youth goes down!

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Oddly enough on my journey to the ignore button I noticed you are 1 of Peters 5 friends. We really need to shake this standing up for friends no matter what business. See cops in america as a reference for why this can become a bad thing.

Please compare my most 'sarcastic' post to the majority of peters posts. Never said I objected to fighting fire with fire, but it's the truth and you can only carry a debate for so long before it devolves into what peter decided to make it.

Legalizing Marijuana is an absolute no brainer. You take money out of organized crimes hands. You tax it and control it which makes it safer as you don't have people going the synthetic route. Medical patients will have better access to it.

Anyone against it should be rallying to prohibit alcohol and tobacco, if you aren't then you are some sort of hypocrite. It's that simple.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

How about the "good parenting" tax credit. If your child goes a year without answering "yes" on any survey asking if they have used drugs in the past year, then you receive credit.

I guarantee the incidence of drug use among youth goes down!

I'd be willing to bet there's a direct correlation between helicopter parents and child drug use.

Also means those surveys wouldn't be anonymous, thus making their results completely bogus.... On second thought, I think this was your point lol.

[Cyclops]

And I mistakenly quoted Bandwagon In Flames, this was directed at Peter 12.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Bronchitis is common (dirty glass and disgusting materials used). Memory loss is correlated, sedentary behavior and diet also correlated to that. It's a complex substance so consensus is difficult to reach.

See this is what I was talking before. How do we know that the effects marijuana have on people aren't a result of it being unregulated? We should absolutely be setting limits on the amount of THC you can legally put into it or at least be able to confidently say how much THC is harmful. It's sort of the same as people going blind from drinking homemade moonshine during prohibition.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'd be willing to bet there's a direct correlation between helicopter parents and child drug use.

Also means those surveys wouldn't be anonymous, thus making their results completely bogus.... On second thought, I think this was your point lol.

That was a sardonic throwback to the survey posted earlier that Peter had formed part of his argument around. I couldn't help myself.

For the record, I'm well aware that bad kids can come from good families.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Oddly enough on my journey to the ignore button I noticed you are 1 of Peters 5 friends. We really need to shake this standing up for friends no matter what business. See cops in america as a reference for why this can become a bad thing.

So you are saying a point of view in an Internet forum is more important then a friends relationship and it's like a cop commiting perjury? I think you need to step back, have a drink(or maybe something else) and relax.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Oddly enough on my journey to the ignore button I noticed you are 1 of Peters 5 friends. We really need to shake this standing up for friends no matter what business. See cops in america as a reference for why this can become a bad thing.

Excuse me? I support Peter and his right to discuss what he feels strongly about. That doesn't always mean I agree with what he says. For the most part his posts like most others on this forum give me pause for thought.

Please compare my most 'sarcastic' post to the majority of peters posts. Never said I objected to fighting fire with fire, but it's the truth and you can only carry a debate for so long before it devolves into what peter decided to make it.

Since when did Peter or anyone else for that matter force you to decide how you should discuss issues? Take responsibility for your own actions.

The truth has yet to be determined. As long as there is an association between weed and psychosis i'm willing to allow for more studies before we conclude one way or another.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Matata

The harmfullness of cigarettes was fervently hidden and lied about by tobacco companies for decades. Everyone knows whats up when it comes to weed.

Who would you believe? Information coming from a tobacco company or from the medical profession that had maintained cigarettes were harmful? The dangers of smoking was reported long before the tobacco companies were caught in a lie.

Empower individuals to make good choices by making knowledge and discussion available, don't wrap everyone in bubble wrap and tell them it's for their own good.

As long as we make sure people take responsibilty for their actions i'm all for that.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by rubecube

See this is what I was talking before. How do we know that the effects marijuana have on people aren't a result of it being unregulated? We should absolutely be setting limits on the amount of THC you can legally put into it or at least be able to confidently say how much THC is harmful. It's sort of the same as people going blind from drinking homemade moonshine during prohibition.

Poor growing methods and chemical additives are more likely to be harmful. Most illegal product is grown with chemicals and I do agree it should be regulated. So much money could go straight into our infrastructure and it's going right into the pockets of drug dealers. I'd strongly advocate for a provincial infrastructure tax so we can see direct benefits.

Also adolescent psychology studies show children listen to reason much more than fear tactics and rhetoric. Even if it's not legalized children should be taught the basic science of how it can harm their development or trigger mental illness until their brains are done developing. The education system has to be at least partly to blame.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Agreed.

As a final comment on this, anyone who doesn't want it legalized because of the harm it has on teens brain development need to rethink what you're actually trying to achieve by arguing against legalization.

Many many teens are smoking weed in Canada. It's an issue right this moment, so please come up with a way to address the actual issue at hand.

- 10% of marijuana taxed revenue will go towards youth education on drugs.
- Marijuana drug dealers will actually be punished harshly for dealing to teens. Not only is it harmful for the black market to continue, but they are taking away tax dollars which will also be bad for the government.

Done, there's 2 solutions involving legalization that actually tries to address the actual issue. Please anyone feel free to come up with something better, refute it, or expand on it.

You know, I'm fine with legalization, really I am, and like I've mentioned before, my major concern is two fold right now, and that's handling the legal or justice system ramifications.

My first concern is basically around how teens get their hands on it, now your talking about in your second point creating a harsh punishment system for people that give or sell it to teens. And that's fine, but lets talk about that for a second. Drug and especially grass dealing isn't just shadowy guys in leather coats or jean jackets with cutoff sleeves hanging around in school yards selling to kids. Its going to be parents doing the same thing that they do with beer. or their older brother or younger brother or sister, or their neighbor, or their friend. Are we going to treat them harshly? Or are we going to have to create a two level system of justice where we wink at someone familiar with the teen and say, hey man its just a little pot, while some other guy is given 5 years in jail, or time at a workfarm or whatever?

On the second point and it was bought up before and that's to limit the level of THC that's allowable in regulated pot. But and I still say this with all earnestness, as much as we envision that these criminal gangs will throw their hands up and go get good honest work, they're going to protect their revenue stream, and that means they either undercut the government costs, which might not be too hard because frankly they don't have the manufacturing or distribution costs that government regulated pot would have, nor would they have to pay taxes. Meanwhile your going to have multiple levels of tax on legal pot in terms of on the grower and on the buyer.

So to me, that means the gangs are going to focus on better (not sure that's the right word?) cheaper pot.

In terms of spending dollars, I think last year Canada spent over $7 million alone just on anti-drug advertising, which is more then all of the other health campaigns combined, but a UN study showed that Canadian Youth were the highest consumers of pot in the Western World, so before we get into a boondoogle of just throw money at it and the problem will disappear due to shiny ads and frying pans and eggs, the government needs to show an actual executable plan that makes sense.

As much as there are a lot of good reasons why it should be legalized, I think that there has to be a solid framework and comprehensive framework on how this is going to look, which means that the government has to resist the urge to rush into it because there's "Gold in them thar hills". Because if we don't this whole thing because a massive mess and fu.

[Fuzz]

Which seams to be what the government is doing. They have given themselves well over a year before releasing a plan. I would hope that is enough time to come up wih a proper one.