2012/13 General Heat Discussion Thread

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Kadri also apparently showed up to training camp out of shape. Look at him now.

It's always the same excuses for our prospects. "Out of shape", "Was never really that good". Look at other franchises.

At what point do we start blaming the team for continued failure in every way?

There are different levels of out of shape. From the news we've had both Howse and Ferland have REALLY struggled early in their pro careers to be in the type of shape that the organization requires. Heck since Ferland got traded to Saskatoon we've even heard that he's been having to work on his conditioning there too. Clearly this is an ongoing issue and the major reason why he wasn't given more ice time in Abbotsford.

Continued failure in every way? Hyperbole isn't helping your argument. Brodie developed just fine in the Flames organization. Giordano was developed by the Flames. Backlund looks like he'll be fine. I'm sure Baertschi will be fine long term as well.

You have to look at each case individually. It appears you instead want to write off the entire developmental system. Some of what you are calling "excuses" are in fact "reasons". It is hard to make the jump to pro hockey in a lockout year and if you show up out of shape then you wasted your own opportunity.

We haven't had a lot of elite prospects down in Abby the past couple years. Seems like you want to rage against the system just to vent. If you do a closer analysis then you have to look at each kid individually. Stop making generalizations and stop blaming the coaching staff for problems that players had under their control.

This isn't alchemy. You can't turn mediocre prospects into gold over night or at all really. I don't think we've seen any clear example of Ward completely mismanaging a top prospect so I'm not sure where this Ward sucks mentality comes from that a couple posters have trumpeted. Our top prospects (Horak, Baerstchi, Brodie) have played well under Ward and clearly have earned their opportunities. Breen by all accounts has made significant strides this year under Ward.

I think if you want to place the blame for our mediocre prospect pool then it rightfully rests more on the scouting staff, the GM, and our draft position. In comparison to many teams we just haven't had as many picks, especially high ones. Over the past decade many teams have had multiple 1st rounders in a single year, multiple 2nd rounders, etc. We've NEVER drafted top 5, NEVER drafted two players in the 1st round, and barely ever had a 2nd rounder in the past decade. Go count how many 1st rounders and 2nd rounders some teams like CHI and have had over the past decade.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Heat goals for:

Pre-Lockout: 2.35 (80 goals in 34 games)
Post-Lockout: 1.90 (57 goals in 30 games)

Heat goals against:

Pre-Lockout: 2.18 (74 goals allowed in 34 games)
Post-Lockout: 2.83 (85 goals allowed in 30 games)

Heat record:

Pre-Lockout: 17-10-3-4
Post-Lockout: 11-17-0-2

[J epworth]

Brust I think has run his course with the Heat. He hasn't been good most of 2013. Time to keep him in the press box and play Irving and Taylor the rest of the year.

[Ashasx]

Somebody has to stop the bleeding.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Heat goals for:

Pre-Lockout: 2.35 (80 goals in 34 games)
Post-Lockout: 1.90 (57 goals in 30 games)

Heat goals against:

Pre-Lockout: 2.18 (74 goals allowed in 34 games)
Post-Lockout: 2.83 (85 goals allowed in 30 games)

Heat record:

Pre-Lockout: 17-10-3-4
Post-Lockout: 11-17-0-2

At this point who have they even lost to the big club. Brodie and ...? Sven for 20 games, but he was hurt already.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by nik-

At this point who have they even lost to the big club. Brodie and ...? Sven for 20 games, but he was hurt already.

They also lost Byron.

Plus they've lost Aliu, Street, Horak and Taylor for some stretches, as well as the Brust implosion since Taylor got an NHL deal and he didn't.

Oh yeah, they also lost Mcarthy to the Swiss league as well.

[agulati]

What is Bouma's status? Is he done for the year or is there a chance of him coming in for a few games. It will be good for both the flames and heat if he sees some icetime this year, since he is a pending restricted free agent at the end of the season.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by agulati

What is Bouma's status? Is he done for the year or is there a chance of him coming in for a few games. It will be good for both the flames and heat if he sees some icetime this year, since he is a pending restricted free agent at the end of the season.

Done for the year. Had knee surgery.

[thymebalm]

They lost their top 3 defenders and never had them replaced. Brodie, McCarthy, Piskula.

Weisbrod should be trying to shore that defence up, because it has ZERO mobility.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Drew MacKenzie has stepped up in a HUGE way this road trip. It seems like he never leaves the ice. He's getting well over 20 minutes a game and is doing well by all accounts.

Nice to see a rookie step up with Piskula now gone.

[flames_fan13]

The Heat lost a couple more players due to suspensions. Testwuide got a 3 game suspension for his charge yesterday and Aliu got an automatic suspension for his second game misconduct in the "abuse of officials" category. Information from Ryan Pinder's twitter.

Going to make getting out of this horrible slide even harder.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

They lost their top 3 defenders and never had them replaced. Brodie, McCarthy, Piskula.

Weisbrod should be trying to shore that defence up, because it has ZERO mobility.

Instead of prospects, we should sign some experienced former NHL'ers now playing in Eurpore to come back home. Chances are a decent amount of guys would love toc ome back for a chance to play in BC.

Right now, I think it would be hella fun to get one or two of these types (ala Steve McCarthy). I have no reason to back this up, other than it'd be fum to see some returning names getting one last kick at the can. What the hell, I love that idea.

Micki Dupont, anybody?

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Muta

Instead of prospects, we should sign some experienced former NHL'ers now playing in Eurpore to come back home. Chances are a decent amount of guys would love toc ome back for a chance to play in BC.

Right now, I think it would be hella fun to get one or two of these types (ala Steve McCarthy). I have no reason to back this up, other than it'd be fum to see some returning names getting one last kick at the can. What the hell, I love that idea.

Micki Dupont, anybody?

Ummm, NO! College UFA is around the corner, sign some guys to AHL deals and see if you can find a gem.

[kyuss275]

With Taylor being recalled and Irving on the shelf, who is the back-up to Brust?

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

With Taylor being recalled and Irving on the shelf, who is the back-up to Brust?

On the road, I'm assuming it'll be a quick signing of a local guy.

For when try get back home though, they'll probably send a call in to Utah to get Rollheiser back up.

[J epworth]

Baertschi bats a puck out of the air and scores! 1-0 Abby!

[Brando]

Carson scores a goal and Sven with an assist. 2-0 Abby.

[MoreDrank]

Brust comes up with some clutch saves on that Rampage PP...

[Brando]

Looks like the Sven's assist was given to Horak.

[devo22]

Jones scores with 10 seconds left to make it 4-4 and send the game to OT. Sven and Max Power with 1+1 each.

Bancks, Jones and Breen all with fighting majors tonight.