Players whose roles were more critical to USA victory than Kobe Bryant:
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Kevin Love
No matter how badly you want Kobe to still be as great as he was 5 years ago, he was mostly a non-factor yesterday. I too also noticed he seemed to not be all that involved in the 4th quarter, but CP3 and LeBron had things under control, so why risk giving it to Kobe for multiple ill-advised shots.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Players whose roles were more critical to USA victory than Kobe Bryant:
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Kevin Love
No matter how badly you want Kobe to still be as great as he was 5 years ago, he was mostly a non-factor yesterday. I too also noticed he seemed to not be all that involved in the 4th quarter, but CP3 and LeBron had things under control, so why risk giving it to Kobe for multiple ill-advised shots.
5 years ago, what are you nuts?
Let us see here, how many titles do the above listed players have in the last 5 years? One
How many titles does Kobe have in that same five year period? Two
It's astounding that a washed up loser like Kobe can lead his team to two titles in 5 years (4 actually), while those four greats can only have one messily title in their entire careers.
Oh maybe we should look at MVP voting to find out how washed up he is.
Okay in 2008 he won the MVP, but maybe all the others players just played terrible that year.
In 2009 he finished second. Hmm lets chalk that up to the heavy Lakers bias in the media.
IN 2010 he finished 10 points behind Durant for second in MVP voting. Ahah he is slowly getting worse... in a way. I mean the guy who barely finishes third in voting is obviously washed up correct?
In 2011 and 2012 he finished fourth each year. And, the only guys who finished ahead of him both years were James and Durant. However he is getting worse in a way, from the best in the league, to second best, to third best, to fourth. Perhaps next season he will finish 5th in MVP voting, what a no talent bum he'd become!
He also consistently finishes in the top 5 in scoring, and his field goal percentage you continually bring up is comparable to Durant, Rose, Paul, and other players that can't always depend on driving to the basket to bring up their FG%.
Maybe you're right, Kobe is obviously a washed up loser...
Sort of misread your post btw, but my point stands that only LeBron James should be considered the better player in today's game. There is a couple players that are on the same level as Kobe, but it's very close after James.
Last edited by trackercowe; 08-14-2012 at 12:18 AM.
There's no point in arguing with most of these guys it's blind hatred.
I guess having 17 points in a 7 point win is not contributing much. I guess ignoring the coaches game plan of having Durant be the go to guy on offense was his fault. Keys forget 2008 where the team USA roster credited Bryant for most of those guys having break out seasons the year following.
Pete if you're willing to admit to being a blind Kobe jock rider, I'll cop to being a blind hater. Goes both ways, and your takes on Kobe are much more blind than mine. I respect Kobe, but I've been able to watch many of his games over the years, he's a great player. But LeBron and probably Durant will both end up better than him. Durant is more like Kobe in that he's essentially a great scorer and good at everything else, LeBron can be great at everything so as long as he wins another couple rings then he'll pass Kobe. You'll disagree, but I'll take the more complete player every day of the week. It's why I'll take Tim Duncan over a lot of guys ever.
And anyone suggesting at the very least LeBron and CP3 aren't better than Kobe gotta really wonder what it is they're looking for in a basketball player. Those guys make their teammates better....Kobe is Kobe. Better than he used to be, still good for 5-10 very questionable shot choices a game. Kobe's biggest problem is he's lost a step, and now he needs to rely more on his very average jump shot. Kobe works best off the dribble, not as a jump shooter.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
You obviously have no idea what your talking about. 12 time all defensive player? 2nd most in league history. Yeah he's one dimensional. 14 time all star, 5 championships. He's just average though #6 and his 1 championship are better though right? Lol.
The Championship argument is pretty stupid overall, but especially when considering one guy still has half of his career left.
How many teams could you legitimately say that LeBron could have won with? Maximum 2, the 2 Miami teams. Put any other player on those Cleveland teams and they still don't win titles.
So now it is LeBron's fault that he got stuck with a crappy organization and Kobe is a better player than him because Shaq went to LA and won him some titles?
Haha do you actually read what I say, or just assume its nothing good? I didn't say Kobe was average at other things, I said he was good at other things. You know why LeBron will end up better all-time? Because physically he's just too dominant not too. He can do things Kobe could never dream of. LeBron still needs to win a few more, which I also said, but you actually think Kobe will end up better than Jordan, so any thought of a rational discussion ended there.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
No he doesn't need a few more he needs 5 more rings. Individual accolades are great but they ate nothing compared to championships and Kobe and Jordan have them. Two great defenders with a total of 11 titles #6 isn't in the same conversation.
So now it is LeBron's fault that he got stuck with a crappy organization and Kobe is a better player than him because Shaq went to LA and won him some titles?
No it's not his fault but this statement about Kobe winning with Shaq is head scratching. Magic won 5 titles with Kareem, Jordan won 6 titles with Pippen also Kobe was able to win back to back titles without a Shaq caliber player on the Lakers roster. Without Kobe, Shaq would had never won 3 straight titles. Without Shaq, Kobe would had never won 3 straight titles. I find it funny when people knock Kobe for winning titles with Shaq when the legends back then also had a superstar on their sides when they won titles. And i do agree that Lebron will probably end up the better player in the long run but he still has quite a way to go. Right now he is defiantly the best basketball player in the world
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Last edited by Hockey_Ninja; 08-14-2012 at 09:49 PM.
Magic won 5 titles with Kareem, Jordan won 6 titles with Pippen also Kobe was able to win back to back titles without a Shaq caliber player on the Lakers roster. Without Kobe, Shaq would had won 3 straight. Without Shaq, Kobe wouldnèt have won 3 straight. I find it funny when people knock Kobe for winning titles with Shaq when the legends back then also had a superstar on their sides when they won titles.
There is no use wasting time replying to posts like that. Anyone that knows basketball knows neither Shaq or Kobe win without each other.
No it's not his fault but this statement about Kobe winning with Shaq is head scratching. Magic won 5 titles with Kareem, Jordan won 6 titles with Pippen also Kobe was able to win back to back titles without a Shaq caliber player on the Lakers roster. Without Kobe, Shaq would had never won 3 straight titles. Without Shaq, Kobe would had never won 3 straight titles. I find it funny when people knock Kobe for winning titles with Shaq when the legends back then also had a superstar on their sides when they won titles. And i do agree that Lebron will probably end up the better player in the long run but he still has quite a way to go. Right now he is defiantly the best basketball player in the world
I am not knocking Kobe for winning with Shaq I am pointing out the difference in him having a great player (who was better than him at the time) and the scrubs that LeBron had in LA.
No he doesn't need a few more he needs 5 more rings. Individual accolades are great but they ate nothing compared to championships and Kobe and Jordan have them. Two great defenders with a total of 11 titles #6 isn't in the same conversation.
So Russell is by far the best player ever because he was a better defender than both those guys, had individual accolades and twice as many championships?
Can't we all agree that "The best player ever" conversation ends up being a combination of both individual and team accolades. That's why I believe Jordan is and will be the best ever (6 Rings, 6 Finals MVP, 5 MVP).
If you subscribe to the "Most rings is the best player theory" then I guess Russell, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, Tom Sanders, Havlicek, Jim Loscutoff, Frank Ramsey and Big Shot Bob are the best players ever. Weird how all those players (outside of Horry) player for the Celtics in the 60s.
I think the difference in supporting cast between Magic and Jordan vs Kobe is that Jordan and Magic were the best player on the majority of their championship teams (Kareem was the best player in 1985) while Kobe was the best player on only 2 of his championship teams.
To me, Kobe isn't the best Laker ever, so there is no chance to be the best ever until he passes Magic.
To me, Kobe isn't the best Laker ever, so there is no chance to be the best ever until he passes Magic.
And therein lies the most key point preventing Kobe from even getting to the MJ discussion. He probably needs at least another ring and probably two to have a chance of passing Magic as the greatest Laker ever. Until he's the best player from his own franchises history (and of course you could argue Kareem or Jerry West are even greater Lakers than Kobe), he cannot be the best player ever.
And as has been mentioned, titles alone are not the indicator of a great player, otherwise Adam Morrison and DJ Mbenga are greater players than Karl Malone and John Stockton....I feel very dirty to have just wrote that.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I have to admit, after the Kobe scandals I didnt really like the guy, but I have come around on Kobe and I actually like him. I think he is transitioning well from a star to a sub star who is willing to do his thing but doesnt need to be a ball control freak.
Also I think the Shaq thing is where he gets alot of bad press and in the end I think we will see that it was actually Shaq that was the problem.
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