02-24-2016, 01:11 PM
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#1081
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Whoop de do.
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Good teams have depth.
If you can retain these good depth pieces because they are undervalued across the league, why would you trade them off for 5th and 6th round draft picks?
Jooris is a good and underappreciated piece. He's not going to fetch anything significant in a trade though.
Keep him and benefit from him.
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02-24-2016, 01:12 PM
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#1082
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
I absolutely hate advanced stats.
People should rarely if ever be pissed about losing plugs like Byron or Jooris these guys are playing 10min a game or less. They sre slightly better than other 4th liners who cares?
Flames can't commit money and term to these guys and need to focus on establishing a solid core to keep and bringing up prospects to fill these bottom line roles
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Yeah. Just put whoever is tallest on his skates in there. That is how a real winning hockey team is built. Hockey is played with pucks, not numbers right? Stupid nerds.
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02-24-2016, 01:14 PM
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#1083
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
I absolutely hate advanced stats.
People should rarely if ever be pissed about losing plugs like Byron or Jooris these guys are playing 10min a game or less. They sre slightly better than other 4th liners who cares?
Flames can't commit money and term to these guys and need to focus on establishing a solid core to keep and bringing up prospects to fill these bottom line roles
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Who is committing money and term to these guys?
Paul Byron just re-signed for a little over $1M. Jooris would likely cost less than a million for a one-year contract.
This is a team that just handed a grinder who gets pummeled in terms of possession a three-year $2.3 million AAV contract. Both Byron and Jooris are better than Bouma.
At the same time, they'll cost half that. That's exactly why I want them. Commit money and term to the likes of Gaudreau and Bennett, not bottom 6ers.
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02-24-2016, 01:15 PM
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#1084
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
This would be Paul Byron 2.0. The Flames have to be smarter than that. It's almost eerie.
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I have no idea if you're saying that as justification for trading Jooris (i.e. don't hang on to a guy who you might lose to waivers in the fall) or for keeping him.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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02-24-2016, 01:16 PM
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#1085
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
Good teams have depth.
If you can retain these good depth pieces because they are undervalued across the league, why would you trade them off for 5th and 6th round draft picks?
Jooris is a good and underappreciated piece. He's not going to fetch anything significant in a trade though.
Keep him and benefit from him.
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Good teams have good depth. Not marginal NHL'er depth.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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02-24-2016, 01:18 PM
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#1086
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
Good teams have good depth. Not marginal NHL'er depth.
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Jooris isn't going to win you a game single handedly, but if he's productive, effect, and above adequate in his role, all while being cheap, why trade him for a late round draft pick?
So maybe we can draft another Jooris to be ready in 4 years?
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02-24-2016, 01:20 PM
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#1087
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
Jooris isn't going to win you a game single handedly, but if he's productive, effect, and above adequate in his role, all while being cheap, why trade him for a late round draft pick?
So maybe we can draft another Jooris to be ready in 4 years?
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draft another Jooris in four years? Jooris and Byron's are all over the place. Hard working players with decent defence who can't score for ####.
Trade Jooris, big deal, find another one.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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02-24-2016, 01:21 PM
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#1088
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
Good teams have depth.
If you can retain these good depth pieces because they are undervalued across the league, why would you trade them off for 5th and 6th round draft picks?
Jooris is a good and underappreciated piece. He's not going to fetch anything significant in a trade though.
Keep him and benefit from him.
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Good teams replace their depth regularly without skipping a beat. Hell, Chicago replaces their skill players every couple years without skipping a beat.
It's just not worth losing sleep over. These guys are bottom 6 players. It really shouldn't be a big deal to lose them.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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02-24-2016, 01:23 PM
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#1089
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
This is a team that just handed a grinder who gets pummeled in terms of possession a three-year $2.3 million AAV contract. Both Byron and Jooris are better than Bouma.
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No, they aren't. Hockey is more than shot generation and shot suppression. Bouma is way more valuable than either of those guys.
Pretty sure Grant and Hathaway can replace Jooris since they looked as good or better than Jooris last training camp.
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02-24-2016, 01:23 PM
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#1090
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Lifetime In Suspension
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If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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02-24-2016, 01:26 PM
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#1091
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
Who is committing money and term to these guys?
Paul Byron just re-signed for a little over $1M. Jooris would likely cost less than a million for a one-year contract.
This is a team that just handed a grinder who gets pummeled in terms of possession a three-year $2.3 million AAV contract. Both Byron and Jooris are better than Bouma.
At the same time, they'll cost half that. That's exactly why I want them. Commit money and term to the likes of Gaudreau and Bennett, not bottom 6ers.
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Byron has a manageable cap hit but got 3 years term and is 27 years old. I would rather not sign guys of that age to long term deals to be 4th line players. I like Byron and am happy for him but do not miss him at all.
Jooris is a bottom liner as well not going to regret moving him at all. If he signs for another 1 year deal I won't be mad but if we trade him for a 4th I will not be mad either.
Also not a fan of the Bouma contract and think he is a perfect example of giving money and term to a below average winger.
For me the problem with the flames going into the summer is the horrible money tied up in garbage players. Raymond, Bollig, Stajan, Wideman, Smid, Engellend, Bouma are chewing up big dollars where the team needs to add a top 4 D, 1-2 top 6 forwards, a starting goalie, and pay their star RFA's all with $24M
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02-24-2016, 01:26 PM
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#1092
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
No, they aren't. Hockey is more than shot generation and shot suppression. Bouma is way more valuable than either of those guys.
Pretty sure Grant and Hathaway can replace Jooris since they looked as good or better than Jooris last training camp.
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Valuable at warming a seat in the press box?
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02-24-2016, 01:30 PM
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#1093
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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I think Friday we see a bunch of trades from CGY. In the middle of a short home stand and a few days for some of the key players to spend a bit of time with their families.
__________________
"Everybody's so desperate to look smart that nobody is having fun anymore" -Jackie Redmond
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02-24-2016, 01:31 PM
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#1094
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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I'm not falling in love with anyone.
And this statement is only true if that bottom 6 player wants a bigger contract than his actual worth to the team (ie., Bouma).
Yes, I completely agree with the sentiment that no bottom 6 player is a core piece, and that they are replaceable.
But there's a difference between letting Brandon Bollig go to free agency and not Marcus Kruger. That's all I'm saying.
So far the Flames have not done well in this regard. Jooris will likely be cheaper to re-sign than he was last off-season. Not falling in love with these types of players is not the same as throwing them away when it's time to negotiate a contract.
Last edited by Ashasx; 02-24-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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02-24-2016, 01:33 PM
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#1095
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreDrank
Valuable at warming a seat in the press box?
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I think you're drank
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02-24-2016, 01:34 PM
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#1096
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
I'm not falling in love with anyone.
And this statement is only true if that bottom 6 player wants a bigger contract than his actual worth to the team (ie., Bouma).
Yes, I completely agree with the sentiment that no bottom 6 player is a core piece, and that they are replaceable.
But there's a difference between letting Brandon Bollig go to free agency and not Marcus Kruger. That's all I'm saying.
So far the Flames have not done well in this regard. Jooris will likely be cheaper to re-sign that he was last off-season.
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Agree. Quality bottom six players on sub $1.5 mil contracts are going to matter a lot to this team in a little while (like next year or the one after).
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02-24-2016, 01:35 PM
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#1097
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreDrank
Yeah. Just put whoever is tallest on his skates in there. That is how a real winning hockey team is built. Hockey is played with pucks, not numbers right? Stupid nerds.
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Moneyball has not been proven to win championships yet. Let's use spreadsheets and graphs to evaluate players over watching them.
I am not a huge Russell fan but the guy was a beast against the Canucks in the playoffs last year and is a heart and soul warrior. The graph will show however that he is one of the worst players in the league.
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02-24-2016, 01:36 PM
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#1098
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First Line Centre
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Thing is, with Bouma, what do you do? He had a fantastic season last year and we all knew he wouldn't repeat it. But you can't enter negotiations with him going "you aren't scoring 16 goals next season, so here is your offer". You also can't just let him walk away, not after what he did. Sends out a poor message to the dressing room. So what choice do you have but to pay him over the odds? Yes, he is overpaid and it was a mistake by Treliving to pay him that much with that much term. But I don't see what choice he had?
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02-24-2016, 01:40 PM
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#1099
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreDrank
Valuable at warming a seat in the press box?
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How many times has Bouma been a healthy scratch this season? By my count, he's missed 34 due to injury and 1 for disciplinary reasons. He's played in 23 games. That adds up to 58 games, and the Flames have played 59, so he's been a healthy scratch once this season.
Jooris has played 40 and missed 1 for undisclosed reasons. That means he's been a healthy scratch 18 times.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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02-24-2016, 01:43 PM
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#1100
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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I may have to make this my new signature. Made me actually Laugh Out Loud.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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