Israel declares war on Hamas

[Pointman]

The crux of the matter seems to be whether one would believe in one of those two theories:

1. Israel is genuinely trying to release hostages and defeat Hamas. It does commit atrocities along the way, but there's no intention to murder all Gazans

2. Hostages are merely an excuse. Israel wants them to stay in captivity so they have am excuse to kill Gazans.


So, if the second option is correct, it makes perfect sense for Hamas to release hostages. Right now, unconditionally. This would put Israel's back against the wall. If Israel continues to murder Gazans after that, Israeli actions would be indefensible. Israel would quickly become a pariah state, maybe even more so than Russia. Isolated, Israel would gradually decline and eventually fall. Which is exactly Hamas's goal. So, why don't Hamas just release hostages? Maybe because they want the war to continue and they know that the war would stop if they do?

[BigThief]

Pretty obvious it's number two. They care about the hostages I'm sure, to a degree, but the terrorist attacks of October 7th by Hamas gave Zionist Israel the excuse it needed to enter and eradicate the population of Gaza for a land grab.

Hamas could release all the hostages today, including some bonus hostages no one knew about and it wouldn't change a damn thing. Mind you, no one here is defnding Hamas.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The motivation IS important. If their goal is to replace other aid agencies, but do it in a ####ty way that doesn't provide the necessary aid, but also keeps other agencies out, you don't see how this is a devious way of continuing the starvation while pretending to be helping?


Or, as mentioned in the articles, the apparent goal of consolidating aid in a few areas, forcing the civilization population to be near them and empty areas of Gaza Israel wants them out of so they can take it?


If you can't even question motives, then you are far too trusting of people who have proven their evilness and goals over and over.

So they reject feeding people because they suspect that it's a cover to a land grab. So they let people starve, as if would somehow stop a land grab? Rejecting to participate on feeding people because you suspect that it is a cover for land grab is inhumane, even if those suspicious are right. A humanitarian org is paid to feed people, not to prevent occupations.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Pretty obvious it's number two. They care about the hostages I'm sure, to a degree, but the terrorist attacks of October 7th by Hamas gave Zionist Israel the excuse it needed to enter and eradicate the population of Gaza for a land grab.

Hamas could release all the hostages today, including some bonus hostages no one knew about and it wouldn't change a damn thing. Mind you, no one here is defnding Hamas.

It absolutely would. Israel either would stop bombings or will continue. If it stops - isn't it exactly what you want? "Stop genocide" and all? If it continues, it would be much harder for Trump to support them. Trump tweeted this winter that Hamas will have "all hell to pay" if they don't release hostages. Losing USA support would make Israel much weaker, if sustainable at all. Continuing after a release of hostages would also create strong internal opposition to Netanyahu.

If one assumes, that Israel would continue after releasing hostsges, then releasing hostages is clearly the best move Hamas can do, even from purely political reasons. This would play directly into Hamas hands.

Regarding land grab. You know that Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and removed all its settlements there just 20 years ago, right? 20 more years ago they offered Gaza to Egypt and they declined. Nobody wants Gaza. Unlike West Bank and Golan Heights, it has no military value. It's a desert and you need to deal with two millions people who just sit on bare ground and wait for food. Nobody wants to govern it.

[PepsiFree]

I mean Netanyahu and Smotrich have both said the aid is allowed solely so they don’t lose international support and can continue their efforts to cleanse and then occupy Gaza but please talk more about how Egypt didn’t want it 40 years ago like that’s relevant to what is happening right now.

Two years and Pointman has nothing new to say and nothing of value to add outside of repeating far right talking points. Incredible that the hate never ends.

[ThePrince]

Claiming that this isn’t a genocide because Israel could be killing way more Palestinians if it wanted to is one of the wildest, most disgusting takes I think I’ve ever seen posted.

I’m not sure why you all keep engaging with someone who is clearly a hateful person and has no hope of actually trying to view this tragedy through an objective lens.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Claiming that this isn’t a genocide because Israel could be killing way more Palestinians if it wanted to is one of the wildest, most disgusting takes I think I’ve ever seen posted.

I’m not sure why you all keep engaging with someone who is clearly a hateful person and has no hope of actually trying to view this tragedy through an objective lens.

You can't even come up with an argument. All you do is misrepresent the point and say something like "what a disgusting/ghoulish/whatever take". If the plan is to cleanse Gaza, it would take 50 years at current pace. If you go by Hamas figures. That's weird way to conduct cleansing. For comparison sake, in Holocaust 2/3 of European Jews were murdered in 4 years, so Hitler was on pace to finish in 6 years.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I mean Netanyahu and Smotrich have both said the aid is allowed solely so they don’t lose international support and can continue their efforts to cleanse and then occupy Gaza but please talk more about how Egypt didn’t want it 40 years ago like that’s relevant to what is happening right now.

Two years and Pointman has nothing new to say and nothing of value to add outside of repeating far right talking points. Incredible that the hate never ends.

Please find the quote that the plan is to "cleanse" Gaza. And direct quote, not from propaganda site. The part, that they only allow aid for not to lose international support is true.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Pointman

And this includes a lot of Israel what army is doing. Forcing a civilian to clear a tunnel from traps is a good example. It makes perfect sense from military standpoint. If I'm a soldier, I would do the same. I'm pretty sure that you would do as well. It is also a crime.
.

####ing vile

[Fuzz]

Hitler being more efficient than Netanyahu sure is an interesting angle.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It's a desert and you need to deal with two millions people who just sit on bare ground and wait for food. Nobody wants to govern it.

There ya go

[KelVarnsen]

That's better.

This message is hidden because Pointman is on your ignore list because they support genocide

[BigThief]

No one cares who is or isn't on someone's ignore list.

[troutman]

Colorado Springs rabbis respond to Boulder attack 'physically and spiritually'

https://gazette.com/news/colorado-sp...ceaa3c4a5.html

A 45-year-old Egyptian native living illegally on an expired visa in Colorado Springs with his wife and five children is suspected of throwing incendiary devices that injured 12 people, some severely.

Labeled a hate crime and act of terrorism by law enforcement, the incident happened during a peaceful weekly walk calling for remaining Israeli hostages to be released from Hamas captivity.

[Fuzz]

At least 27 Palestinians were killed and dozens wounded by Israeli fire near a food distribution site in the southern Gaza Strip on Tuesday, local health authorities said, in the latest bout of chaos and bloodshed to plague the aid operation.

The Israeli military said its forces had opened fire on a group of individuals who had left designated access routes near the distribution centre in Rafah.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/palest...550669?cmp=rss

"People were walking in their homeland in places we invaders decided they shouldn't walk while trying to access food to survive at one of our *please don't sanction us* distribution sites, so we shot and killed them because we could."

Note this is a new story from yesterday when they basically did the same thing.


I can't possibly imagine being dumb enough to believe this is just the cost of war, which leaves only one alternative. They are ####ing evil ghouls. And on that point, man, I'm just done.

[Fuzz]

Dr. Ahmad al-Farra, a senior administrator at Nasser Hospital, a medical center in Khan Younis a few miles from the site of the shootings, said in a phone interview that the hospital had received 19 of those killed, starting from about 6 a.m.

Dr. al-Farra said that most of the victims were children aged between 10 and 13, many with gunshot wounds to the head or chest. Their bodies were carried much of the way to the hospital, he said, because ambulances could not safely reach the area where the shooting occurred.

The hospital’s ability to treat the wounded had been hindered by critical equipment shortages, Dr. al-Farra said.

“For three days now, we haven’t even had sterile gauze,” he said, adding that they’ve been forced to borrow basic supplies from a nearby field hospital.

https://archive.ph/mc6gS#selection-831.0-911.152

Stupid kids trying to get food from an aid distribution centre. Don't you know this is a war, you are a fair target and you should be thanking the Israeli's for the food instead of soaking up expensive bullets with your head? Kids are so dumb.

[Looch City]

Why is this military regime so trigger happy?

You see people running for aid trucks and all of a sudden they're deemed a threat to you? Better start blasting! From the ground and air!

Terrorist organization through and through.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Why is this military regime so trigger happy?

You see people running for aid trucks and all of a sudden they're deemed a threat to you? Better start blasting! From the ground and air!

Terrorist organization through and through.

Don't put words in the IDF's mouth, Palestinians aren't people to them.

[SutterBrother]

Body of Canadian hostage recovered by IDF raid.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c989rl23zzno

Israeli forces have recovered the bodies of two Israeli-Americans taken back to Gaza as hostages during the Hamas-led attack on southern Israel on 7 October 2023, the Israeli military says.

Judi Weinstein Haggai, 70, who was also a Canadian citizen, and her husband Gadi Haggai, 72, were murdered by gunmen from the Mujahideen Brigades group when they attacked Kibbutz Nir Oz, a statement said.

Their bodies were found in the southern Khan Younis area of Gaza overnight and brought back to Israel for forensic identification.

There are now 56 hostages still being held by Hamas in Gaza, at least 20 of whom are believed to be alive.

Judi, an English teacher, and Gadi Haggai, who used to work in Kibbutz Nir Oz's kitchen, were last seen alive in a video they shared with a group chat at the start of the 7 October attack. They were seen taking cover in a field as incoming rockets fired from Gaza streaked overhead and the sound of gunfire was heard.

Judi later told friends and relatives they had been wounded, before ceasing contact.

The couple's daughter Iris Weinstein Haggai said after the attack her mother had told her they had been "shot by terrorists on a motorcycle and that my dad was wounded really bad". She added: "Paramedics tried to send her an ambulance. The ambulance got hit by a rocket."

In December 2023, the kibbutz announced that both Judi and Gadi were killed that day and their bodies were being held hostage in Gaza.

The Hostages and Missing Families Forum urged decision-makers to do everything they could to agree a new ceasefire deal with Hamas to secure the return of all the remaining hostages.

"There is no need to wait another 608 agonising days for this," it said. "The mission can be completed as early as tomorrow morning. This is what the majority of the Israeli people want."

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://archive.ph/mc6gS#selection-831.0-911.152

Stupid kids trying to get food from an aid distribution centre. Don't you know this is a war, you are a fair target and you should be thanking the Israeli's for the food instead of soaking up expensive bullets with your head? Kids are so dumb.

Before 6 a.m.? Hamas can't even make a believable story.

Israel has zero incentives to kill kids trying to get food from their aid centers. Even if you assume that there's a kind of nefarious plan to use those aid centers to later grab the land, then killing children trying to get food there is kind of counter productive, isn't it?