What to do with Huberdeau?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think there is definitely a psychological component. If it gets to the point that there is nothing left to take away, it becomes hard to motivate with the stick at that point. It might be time to break out the carrot. Like taking away a kid's Nintendo when he doesn't do his homework, but he needs to have a Nintendo first.

It's been mentioned a lot lately, how it can be difficult for coaches these days to motivate players who already have the bag. The main tool they have is ice-time, but once you have used that, then what?

Not a direct comparison to Huberdeau, but I think back to the St. Louis story in Tampa. For the first 20 games or so, he was not doing much and his contributions were inconsequential. He was complaining about ice-time, but Torts wasn't hearing it, and St. Louis started dogging it. Then out of the blue, Torts through him into a top line roll, and St. Louis said there was no way he was ever going to let it get to the low point again.

Maybe it could work with Huberdeau. Give him back all the ice-time he lost, and maybe he does whatever he needs to, to never fall back again.

Interesting strategy. They could play him on the third line for an extended time and expect him to play responsibly while giving younger guys opportunities to grow. Could always move him up later if needed,I like the idea of focusing on the team.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If you are referring to his domestic situation, I'm not sure if he has one here in Calgary. Every team photo where it's wives/girlfriends at a players Christmas or Halloweeen party etc. that has been on their IG, etc. shows Huberdeau alone.

Maybe he just needs some loving? Is that what this slump is about?!

[aaronkarlpatton]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

Maybe he just needs some loving? Is that what this slump is about?!

I think he's just trying to humanize someone.

Sent from my SM-G990W2 using Tapatalk

[traptor]

Maybe the Florida market had certain advantages that the Calgary market lacks, like anonymity.

If you're trying to keep certain aspects of your personal life private, playing in Calgary and being the flames highest paid player ever could make this difficult.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If you are referring to his domestic situation, I'm not sure if he has one here in Calgary. Every team photo where it's wives/girlfriends at a players Christmas or Halloweeen party etc. that has been on their IG, etc. shows Huberdeau alone.

I've seen his girlfriend in his Instagram stories, as well as the heritage classic with his family. The Flames ladies all had matching toques with their partners player number in group photos. And I've seen #10. There's a Flames Wags instagram lol for further proof. Regardless, seems his issues are non related to being "alone" at home.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Amazes me the high regard Treliving gets, even being the GM in the center of the universe, you look at his body of work, he was not a good GM. HE might be the hardest working guy out there, doesn't translate to doing a good job. I really thought he couldnt do a worse move than giving up the draft picks for a very average Hamonic, but he clearly did

100%. I’ve been on this boat for 4-5 years. Sure, Treliving is a hard working guy, smart and is likable. But execution in this role is everything and like I’ve been saying for years, his biggest weakness has always been his talent evaluation and sadly, he decided to save his biggest and longest talent evaluation blunder of them all in Huberdeau.

It has the potential to be the worst contract of all time and it’s going to hurt this franchise for seemingly forever…..seriously 2031? That’s like the equivalent of 2015 to now. That was Johnny’s rookie season in the NHL. That’s a long long time ago. NMC and signing bonuses to boot. Can’t even be bought out, how perfect.

[GreenLantern2814]

What about this:

At the start of every practice, they should put Huberdeau at the middle of a circle and have four guys lined up on the ring around him a coach on either side of the circle.

They should rotate around the outside and a coach should fire Huberdeau passes. As he does, he shouts the name of a teammate who should receive the pass.

Huberdeau delivers the puck and prepares to receive the next pass.

Do that every day for five minutes and focus on doing it faster and faster. Rotate players through the outside of the circle - get everyone on the team acclimated to accepting Huberdeau’s weird twitchy passes.

More importantly, get Huberdeau back to playing instinctual hockey rather than thinking so much.

Get the entire team involved in pulling their guy out of his megaslump.

Maybe that’s stupid. I dunno.

[Locke]

Maybe he needs a couple of games munching popcorn.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

It's valid and contributing to his demise, but I still ask someone to explain how such a vaunted and talented offensive talent can be so awful with the man advantage too? I've yet to hear a sensible explanation as to why he is utterly useless in OT, or on the PP when there is so much more time and space compared to 5-5. It kind of works against the notion in the video that it's all systems based .

There is still undoubtedly an effort and lack of compete in the player that is at the level where you can't say he's not trying, but he certainly isn't ever going to outbattle someone for a puck or positioning.

The PP was the one area that I thought Huberdeau would be able to transfer over from Florida. I remember expecting to see a drastic dip in his 5 on 5 production, but figured he’d be at least relatively dangerous on the man advantage, mainly due to him playing the exact same system and same role he was use to.

From what I remember seeing of him in Florida, he mostly played on the left flank which is basically where he’s situated most of the time now. If I had to guess, I think his lack of production stems from this team’s inability to gain the zone.

Barkov was excellent in gaining the zone efficiently with possession which allowed his unit to set up quickly and not waste any precious seconds, that theoretically equates to more goals. You can’t say that with the team right now who burn half their PP just trying to set up.

I also don’t like how often he misses the net, that needs to be rectified at some point. He’s always trying to pick the corner when in reality, he just needs to the hit the net for a chance to score which can also create havoc from rebounds, tips and etc. The team really just needs a viable shooting threat on the flanks to gain the opposition’s respect.

That in theory should open things up if the defense cheats less. Right now they just give him the shot and take away all his passing lanes. When’s the last time we’ve seen him execute a cross seam pass? Never. That’s why he needs to shoot more and hit the net, because then lanes opens up and the cross seam one timer to Lindholm becomes an option which is something that I noticed worked in Florida with Barkov.

This is something that I remember seeing Gaudreau working on. We all know he didn’t have a great shot, but he still shot it a lot just to keep defenders honest. Then he could fake the shot and make that cross seam pass to Lindholm. That’s the key to a successful powerplay IMO, create threats, make defenders cheat and then punish them by taking the open ice. I thought Tkachuk was awesome at this and from the looks of it, has continued to flourish on the PP with the Panthers.

[mjk123]

Perhaps we just over committed to a guy that came off a career year. Mang, Kadri, etc, see the trend?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The PP was the one area that I thought Huberdeau would be able to transfer over from Florida. I remember expecting to see a drastic dip in his 5 on 5 production, but figured he’d be at least relatively dangerous on the man advantage, mainly due to him playing the exact same system and same role he was use to.

From what I remember seeing of him in Florida, he mostly played on the left flank which is basically where he’s situated most of the time now. If I had to guess, I think his lack of production stems from this team’s inability to gain the zone.

Barkov was excellent in gaining the zone efficiently with possession which allowed his unit to set up quickly and not waste any precious seconds, that theoretically equates to more goals. You can’t say that with the team right now who burn half their PP just trying to set up.

I also don’t like how often he misses the net, that needs to be rectified at some point. He’s always trying to pick the corner when in reality, he just needs to the hit the net for a chance to score which can also create havoc from rebounds, tips and etc. The team really just needs a viable shooting threat on the flanks to gain the opposition’s respect.

That in theory should open things up if the defense cheats less. Right now they just give him the shot and take away all his passing lanes. When’s the last time we’ve seen him execute a cross seam pass? Never. That’s why he needs to shoot more and hit the net, because then lanes opens up and the cross seam one timer to Lindholm becomes an option which is something that I noticed worked in Florida with Barkov.

This is something that I remember seeing Gaudreau working on. We all know he didn’t have a great shot, but he still shot it a lot just to keep defenders honest. Then he could fake the shot and make that cross seam pass to Lindholm. That’s the key to a successful powerplay IMO, create threats, make defenders cheat and then punish them by taking the open ice. I thought Tkachuk was awesome at this and from the looks of it, has continued to flourish on the PP with the Panthers.

This all makes sense, and really the onus is on the player to be more aggressive and multi-dimensional to keep defenders honest like you say. These are things he can totally control, whereas the zone entries and finishing are not and are definitely an issue for the Flames.

I'm not sure what the answer is as even if he was useless as he has been at 5-5 as a Flame, you could live with it somewhat if he were at least contributing to a top 10 PP. Where are any of the sick dangles and seeing eye passes that a $10M dollar player should be producing?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by mjk123

Perhaps we just over committed to a guy that came off a career year. Mang, Kadri, etc, see the trend?

That one year was a career year, but he had been well over a PPG for the 3 seasons prior to that one too.

1.12 PPG
1.13 PPG
1.11 PPG
1.43 PPG
Trade
0.70 PPG
0.47 PPG

Could be age curve, could be confidence, could just be securing the bag and not being as motivated, but really it's pretty much unprecedented to see such a decline for a player from one season to another.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

This is something that I remember seeing Gaudreau working on. We all know he didn’t have a great shot, but he still shot it a lot just to keep defenders honest. Then he could fake the shot and make that cross seam pass to Lindholm. That’s the key to a successful powerplay IMO, create threats, make defenders cheat and then punish them by taking the open ice. I thought Tkachuk was awesome at this and from the looks of it, has continued to flourish on the PP with the Panthers.

Tkachuk was great in the net front as he could screen, was elite at tipping, or also could step out and drop down beside the net, to take a quick pass from Gaudreau and a quick touch pass to Lindholm for the one timer in the slot

Johnny and Tkachuk could work together and read the play and one another to decide on, and execute, this play quickly

Tkachuk still does this in Florida.

Huberdeau could be the Gaudreau in this case, but it was the Tkachuk role that created a lot of the success and although I’ve seen Backs try it a bit, Calgary hasn’t figure out who that person is and they aren’t particularly good at it


When Huberdeau said Lindholm would score because he was passing - well, Lindholm scored a lot on passes from Tkachuk in addition to Gaudreau

[shutout]

https://flamesnation.ca/news/hall-of...uberdeau-going

Kypreos asked Hitchcock what he would do 20 years ago, or today even, to help get Huberdeau going:

“You either trust the player or you don’t trust the player. And if you trust the player, then you’ve gotta put him out there in situations where he feels like you have confidence in him. And that means that you’ve got to take risks and put him out there against top players or in critical situations first of all. Not talk about scoring, not talk about points, but talk about game-like situations where you trust this guy, put him out there where it really matters, give him that confidence that he can play against top players, and then let his skill take over after a while.

All of a sudden he isn’t going to wake up and start scoring two points a game. It’s going to be a gradual process. But in the meantime, he’s got to feel like you trust him. And being able to play against top players, putting him out in critical situations, start of games, end of periods, stuff like that, is really, really important because the player’s confidence will grow because he feels like you trust him and then his natural skill will take over.

I’ve always found that when you’re working with players who have lost their confidence, they become very aloof on the ice. There’s games where the saying you’d have is ‘boy, was he ever quiet.’ And you’ve got to bring the noise, and the way to bring the noise is to put him out there when it really matters and see if he can grow from there.”

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That one year was a career year, but he had been well over a PPG for the 3 seasons prior to that one too.

1.12 PPG
1.13 PPG
1.11 PPG
1.43 PPG
Trade
0.70 PPG
0.47 PPG

Could be age curve, could be confidence, could just be securing the bag and not being as motivated, but really it's pretty much unprecedented to see such a decline for a player from one season to another.

I think it's all the above. But also the 1.43 PPG season was an anomaly, not just for him but the whole Panthers team. There were like eight players with career years, the team was scoring at an incredible rate. So people should just stop thinking of him as that kind of producer (same goes for other players on that team) and the decline is better viewed from his earlier years around 1.12 PPG or so. But even then I think the way Florida played during those PPG+ years was much more offensive, especially under Boughner. That's when they got the reputation of being a run and gun team and rightfully so, they were top 5 team in offense and bottom 5 in defense. Offense still continued under Q but he was able to fix the defense.

So I can see there being multiple reasons, new market, higher expectations and pressure, going from offensive system to Darryl's, confidence hitting rock bottom, maybe getting the big money, being the "main guy", leaving Florida and who knows what else.

Also one thing that I've never understood is when we talk about PPG players, they are all treated the same. Huberdeau is an extremely assits heavy player (about 70% of his points are assits) and to me it lowers his value. For example, everyone will take a player with a stat line of 60+20 over a player with a statline of 20+60 even though they are both PPG players. Not only because you may have two assits per one goal (which deflates the value of assits vs. goals) but also goal scorers are paid premium. So even though Huberdeau was a PPG+ player for four years, I think people misunderstood the kind of player he was. To me he was always a very good complimentary player but not the "main" guy. But still, his decline is jaw dropping.

[NewFan]

I would keep him with Backlund. And add Duehr as RW and use them against other team's top 2 lines. Tell him don't worry about the points. Just help this team by shutting down other team's top lines.
I guess he will be here at least 4 more years until (when we collecting high drafts) we start battling for playoffs, so he has lots of time to find his game to help the team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Tkachuk was great in the net front as he could screen, was elite at tipping, or also could step out and drop down beside the net, to take a quick pass from Gaudreau and a quick touch pass to Lindholm for the one timer in the slot

Johnny and Tkachuk could work together and read the play and one another to decide on, and execute, this play quickly

Tkachuk still does this in Florida.

Huberdeau could be the Gaudreau in this case, but it was the Tkachuk role that created a lot of the success and although I’ve seen Backs try it a bit, Calgary hasn’t figure out who that person is and they aren’t particularly good at it


When Huberdeau said Lindholm would score because he was passing - well, Lindholm scored a lot on passes from Tkachuk in addition to Gaudreau

Their big year - I remember more one timers by Lindholm on passes from Tkachuk behind the goal line than anything else.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I woudn't break up the Zary-Kadri-Pospisil line. Why? If you are entering a rebuild, Kadri doesn't want any part of that. Kadri is performing really well right now, and that's the guy I move the second a non-terrible offer comes across. It is also great for Zary and Pospisil to play together and see if they can also build some chemistry. Those two kids are flying out there right now, and let's just have them develop properly.


It is a shame Pelletier is out. How about bring back Coronato (who played centre before) and.. next guy up is either Ben Jones (12GP, 3G 9A 12pts), Emilio Pettersen (12GP, 3G 7A 10PTS), Adam Klapka (12GB, 5G 4A 9PTS).


Huberdeau - Coronato - Klapka. One elite shooter that skates well, one guy that jams the net/screens goalies and who can make some room out there. Huberdeau - Bishop - Coronato might be better as Bishop is a more natural centre. Pettersen looked good to me and has worked his way up to an NHL stint (and I basically had him written off as a prospect this time last season, so that's really great to see).



Otherwise, the Huberdeau - Backlund - Coleman line is probably the best line for him. That's not far from the same line - though Backlund is not the elite shooter that Coronato is, but Coleman goes to the net hard. It started looking better last season as many people pointed out. Either way, various combinations with Lindholm hasn't worked, and various combinations with Kadri hasn't worked. It is either Backlund's line, or the 4th line (which would probably only further erode Huberdeau's confidence).


I wonder how much Huska and Conroy spoke about getting Huberdeau 'back'. That seemed like a huge talking point when it came to the interview process for other coaches, and I assume Huska. I am certainly not pointing any fingers at anyone right now. I am actually wondering if there is any systemic changes centred around Huberdeau specifically. If there were changes, what were they and why aren't they working? Is it Huberdeau? Is it his teammates not fitting his style of play? Is it the system?



I think before you can really 'fix' Huberdeau, you have to figure out what exactly is wrong with him. I am sure the team knows more or less, so either they can't fix him, or they refuse to fix him. My refusing to fix him, I am in no way implying that they don't care - what I mean is that the type of game that Huska wants to play is just not suited to Huberdeau's game, and the team is unwilling to adjust the game to one player's style.


I don't think anybody really knows why Huberdeau has become a replacement-level player. The good thing is that the team hasn't given up on him. Once he becomes a regular healthy scratch, that's when all is lost, really. He may have gotten benched, but the team hasn't given up on him. I am actually expecting a downward spiral for him soon in terms of effort - it must be incredibly demoralizing to be in that situation as essentially the laughingstock of the league (that's how I would feel in his shoes), nothing is going right with anyone on the team, and the team itself isn't even winning. It must just suck out all the energy out of him.



The good thing is that Huberdeau is a smart player, and eventually he will find different ways to contribute if his offensive ability doesn't return. I mean, it is going to be a heck of a bad contract if it doesn't return, but at least he can be a useful teammate with some more time and adjustment.


Huberdeau just isn't fitting at all, and nobody seems to have any real answers.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by mjk123

Perhaps we just over committed to a guy that came off a career year. Mang, Kadri, etc, see the trend?

Conroy talked about this at the beginning of the year. They are aware some guys are not earning their paychecks.

Huberdeau may not be scoring but that is no excuse for not working hard and contributing in other areas. Kadri is showing this season that a much better effort is possible. If II were the Flames I would put him on the third line and treat him as another member of the team until he's ready to take the next step.

[dustygoon]

Love the Hitchcock post, shutout.

put him out there in situations where he feels like you have confidence in him

We have nothing to lose. Put him out there 18 mins a night with Lindholm vs top two lines.