getting a little tired of the crack/meth heads

[stampsx2]

It became a problem when we told drug users they are the victims of drugs. Up until then there were consequences to a persons poor life choices.

No i don’t think drugs are a result of hardships in life. There are many people that have come to canada from war torn countries like syria and don’t turn to drugs. If it was from life traumas then we would have a serious drug problem among our paramedics.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It became a problem when we told drug users they are the victims of drugs. Up until then there were consequences to a persons poor life choices.

No i don’t think drugs are a result of hardships in life. There are many people that have come to canada from war torn countries like syria and don’t turn to drugs. If it was from life traumas then we would have a serious drug problem among our paramedics.

The main factor is likely family support. I had a friend who'd recently kicked his own habit and come up with a similar argument as you. He told me that as he'd kicked his habit, he didn't have much sympathy for people on the streets who couldn't do the same.

I explained to my friend that he had the benefit of a supportive family. He'd even gone back to his parents house, at age 40, to sober up for a couple months and break some bad patterns and habits. I asked him if that would have been so easy if his family were also drug users who'd abused him either physically or sexually. What if he had no family?

I'm also not blaming any good parents, who's kids wind up on the streets. Some people are there as they mental health issues or just made a few bad choices. The people with the food families are the most likely to respond to treatment.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It became a problem when we told drug users they are the victims of drugs. Up until then there were consequences to a persons poor life choices.

No i don’t think drugs are a result of hardships in life. There are many people that have come to canada from war torn countries like syria and don’t turn to drugs. If it was from life traumas then we would have a serious drug problem among our paramedics.

Thank #### weed is legal

[cam_calderon]

So, what actually drives people to do drugs, then?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There are all sorts of laws on the book about disorderly conduct, public urination, building encampments, etc. that have been ignored in many cities in recent years in the face of the opioid epidemic, and then covid. This was a deliberate change in tack from traditional policy. Part of it driven by new approaches to addiction and mental health, part driven by the de-policing movement.

I'm not necessarily saying this is a valid justification for the seemingly hands-off approach, but it seems like it may be more of a justice system issue - does it make sense to clog the overburdened court system with a revolving door of summary offences?

I'd speculate that there could be more harm than good by developing increased hostility and resentment among homeless-types if their mere existence (urinating, sleeping, etc) is treated criminally. I also wonder about the unintended consequence of arresting a homeless-type...presumably they lose whatever possessions they have accumulated (sleeping bag, etc) and will be more likely to pillage and plunder when they are released back out.

No good answers here.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by blankall

The main factor is likely family support. I had a friend who'd recently kicked his own habit and come up with a similar argument as you. He told me that as he'd kicked his habit, he didn't have much sympathy for people on the streets who couldn't do the same.

I explained to my friend that he had the benefit of a supportive family. He'd even gone back to his parents house, at age 40, to sober up for a couple months and break some bad patterns and habits. I asked him if that would have been so easy if his family were also drug users who'd abused him either physically or sexually. What if he had no family?

I'm also not blaming any good parents, who's kids wind up on the streets. Some people are there as they mental health issues or just made a few bad choices. The people with the food families are the most likely to respond to treatment.

I think there are a lot of variables that go into it and every situation is different. But to break an addiction you have to commit to it and you usually have to get clinical help to change behaviours.

Until an addict decides on both of the above. Chances are it’s not happening. In the case of hard drugs I’m guessing what ultimately stops them if they don’t get help is death.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So, what actually drives people to do drugs, then?

With most addictions it’s the release of dopamine. Guessing it’s the same here?

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So, what actually drives people to do drugs, then?

They are awesome?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So, what actually drives people to do drugs, then?

I found this interesting

https://www.kolmac.com/why-is-drug-u...a-on-the-rise/

According to drugabuse.gov, “roughly 21 to 29 percent of patients prescribed opioids for chronic pain misuse them.” Furthermore, “about 80 percent of people who use heroin first misused prescription opioids.”

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It became a problem when we told drug users they are the victims of drugs. Up until then there were consequences to a persons poor life choices.

You don’t think there are any consequences to being a homeless drug addict?

Going to jail is a step up

[Locke]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So, what actually drives people to do drugs, then?

Uhh....The Human Condition?

Its been said a few times in this already, humanity has been drinking alcohol and doing drugs since the dawn of time. The Ancient Egyptians made beer, the Aztecs would chew and smoke whatever they could, the Chinese and Opium, the examples throughout history of various global cultures are nearly endless.

The problem really, is that in our wonderous genius and pursuit of knowledge we've made drugs just extremely hardcore.

Instead of just having a hoot or two after a hard day of making big rocks into smaller rocks or harvesting the fields we've got people shooting up synthetic opioids that melt your face off.

Tough to go to work the next day after an ordeal like that.

Which is why....there is an argument to be made both for 'safe supply' as well as aggressively working to get some of the worse crap off our streets.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I found this interesting

https://www.kolmac.com/why-is-drug-u...a-on-the-rise/

I had surgery for an umbilical hernia two years ago - they gave me a prescription for 12 Percocet. Now, I’m not saying the next 48 hours were the best days ever, but at no point was the pain anywhere near enough to warrant pharmaceutical grade heroin.

Maybe, MAYBE I could have justified two. Take one on the first day because it really wasn’t the most pleasant feeling, and maybe one the next day.

Take a shot of whisky. Smoke a joint. Have an Advil. Or just don’t be a ##### for 24 hours.

Don’t take the heroin.

I left the scrip in the doctors office - never occurred to me to get it filled.

TLDR; opioid overprescribing is a very real problem that doctors need to take responsibility for.

[CliffFletcher]

Not sure we can blame the drugs themselves, or the human condition. Addictive drugs are available all over the world. And yet some societies have much worse problems with addiction than others. There’s clearly a cultural element at work.

Japan and S Korea are prosperous, first-world countries. They have social issues, but nothing like our levels of addiction and homelessness. Something in their societies make people less vulnerable to abandoning family, jobs, etc in pursuit of drugs to the point of self-destruction. I’d suggest it’s their conformist, more family-centered and authoritarian culture. There are simply more people in those cultures monitoring and intervening in the behaviour of family members than in far more individualistic North American society.

Vices are often the flip-side of virtues. In the individualistic West, people are free to chart their own course. Defy their family, traditions, institutions to do as they please. That autonomy is a good thing for most of us. But for those who are vulnerable to addiction and mental illness, it means they can pull away from all of their social support to indulge their most self-destructive impulses to an extent that their counterparts in other societies simply don’t have the freedom to.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It became a problem when we told drug users they are the victims of drugs. Up until then there were consequences to a persons poor life choices.

No i don’t think drugs are a result of hardships in life. There are many people that have come to canada from war torn countries like syria and don’t turn to drugs. If it was from life traumas then we would have a serious drug problem among our paramedics.

Tell me, since you seem to have all the answers, what "poor life choices" were made when someone had a terrible injury, was prescribed serious pain killers by their doctor, followed their doctor's and pharmacist's instructions to the letter, and nonetheless developed a chemical addition to opioids. You gonna blame the victim there, too?

Opioid addiction isn't the same as cocaine or heroin where someone made a first bad choice to get high. The fentanyl crisis isn't just affecting the homeless and downtrodden, so-called "street junkies" who it's easy for someone like you to overlook and show no empathy towards. It's also affecting many people much like yourself: professional working citizens with good jobs, good homes, and good families, people who would never consider using recreational drugs.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Japan and S Korea are prosperous, first-world countries. They have social issues, but nothing like our levels of addiction and homelessness. Something in their societies make people less vulnerable to abandoning family, jobs, etc in pursuit of drugs to the point of self-destruction. I’d suggest it’s their conformist, more family-centered and authoritarian culture. There are simply more people in those cultures monitoring and intervening in the behaviour of family members than in far more individualistic North American society.

True, but the amount of opiates they prescribe is also a drop in the bucket compared to North America. This is older data, and my understanding is the disparity is even greater now:

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It became a problem when we told drug users they are the victims of drugs. Up until then there were consequences to a persons poor life choices.

No i don’t think drugs are a result of hardships in life. There are many people that have come to canada from war torn countries like syria and don’t turn to drugs. If it was from life traumas then we would have a serious drug problem among our paramedics.

It’s cute you think there isn’t a serious issue among paramedics with drug abuse.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Not sure we can blame the drugs themselves, or the human condition. Addictive drugs are available all over the world. And yet some societies have much worse problems with addiction than others. There’s clearly a cultural element at work.

Japan and S Korea are prosperous, first-world countries. They have social issues, but nothing like our levels of addiction and homelessness. Something in their societies make people less vulnerable to abandoning family, jobs, etc in pursuit of drugs to the point of self-destruction. I’d suggest it’s their conformist, more family-centered and authoritarian culture. There are simply more people in those cultures monitoring and intervening in the behaviour of family members than in far more individualistic North American society.

Vices are often the flip-side of virtues. In the individualistic West, people are free to chart their own course. Defy their family, traditions, institutions to do as they please. That autonomy is a good thing for most of us. But for those who are vulnerable to addiction and mental illness, it means they can pull away from all of their social support to indulge their most self-destructive impulses to an extent that their counterparts in other societies simply don’t have the freedom to.

Are there good metrics to compare drug use and homelessness among various counties?

I remember reading somewhere that Japan still institutionalizes mentally ill people at a much higher rate.

Another reason could just be Japan is old.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It’s cute you think there isn’t a serious issue among paramedics with drug abuse.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at how many functional drug addicts there are. The idea that drug addicts are unemployed, disheveled fiends isn't always accurate. There are a lot of people who can hold down careers and operate businesses, and still be getting high everyday.

[jayswin]

Felt a little extra sketchy on the ctrain this evening. I sat down in one of those shelters at city hall and randomly got yelled at by an addict lady, she kinda pushed me saying it was her seat. I didn't want an altercation so I didn't engage with her.

Then on the train a couple people were saying that a passenger got assulted and robbed of their bag on a train 30 minutes prior.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

It became a problem when we told drug users they are the victims of drugs. Up until then there were consequences to a persons poor life choices.

No i don’t think drugs are a result of hardships in life. There are many people that have come to canada from war torn countries like syria and don’t turn to drugs. If it was from life traumas then we would have a serious drug problem among our paramedics.

It became a much bigger problem when addiction began to be treated as a moral failing worthy of shame (not that there was a singular point in time when that happened). Holier-than-thou moralizers, who could never sink so low as to become addicted themselves, treat addicts as worse than sick people, but as bad people. This makes it all that much harder to first admit to the problem, and second to get treatment.

There are consequences for choices. But making addiction itself an issue of morality, as opposed to just arguing about the morality of crimes some addicts commit, has been a major impediment to treating the broader segment of addicts who are Ill but not criminal.