[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by theoforever

So, to sum it up the Sven situation:

Feaster handed keys to the city, and overhyped the kid.
Burke disliked the kid from the start and created a rift with the kid by stupidly running to the media and criticizing the kid, something that never should have been done.
Apparently, Treliving did little to improve the situation.
Hartley picked on the kid for every mistake.

As for Sven, he developed entitlement and attitude issues.
To his credit, he tried to correct it, plus he improved his defensive play, only to be punished by Bob for every mistake.
So, he asked to be traded, who wouldn't.

So thanks to Burke we lost a good prospect and Van got a talented young player to haunt us for the next decade.

Flames organization completely mishandled Sven.
If I didn't know better, I would have thought we were talking about Oiler brain trust.

Good job.

Hello Sven's papa.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by theoforever

So, to sum it up the Sven situation in the most jaundiced possible way:

Feaster handed keys to the city, and overhyped the kid by calling him the team's #1 prospect at a time when they genuinely didn't have any better prospects in the system.
Burke disliked the kid from the start and created a rift with the kid by stupidly running to the media and criticizing the kid, something that never should have been done without confronting him in person first, which any reasonable person would assume actually did happen, but I am not being reasonable, so I refuse to assume that.
Apparently, Treliving did little to improve the situation, because he mysteriously did not use his magical power to make Baertschi play better.
Hartley picked on the kid for every mistake by making him play on the fourth line, which is a totally unreasonable thing to do when you have three better LWs in the lineup.

As for Sven, he developed entitlement and attitude issues which also got played out in the media, but that's only a bad thing when management does it, not when a player does it.
To his credit, he tried under protest to correct it, plus he improved his defensive play at the cost of becoming less effective offensively, only to be punished by Bob for every mistake, since he made few positive contributions on the ice to offset those mistakes.
So, he asked to be traded, who wouldn't.

So thanks to Burke and Baertschi we lost a good prospect who was running out of time and had not improved his play for three straight years, and Van got a talented young player who is a defensive liability, will soon be waiver-eligible, and thinks he should be handed a top-six roster spot to haunt us for the next decade by tearing up the Swiss League, given the high probability that he is just another in the long list of players who are too good offensively to keep in the minors, but not good enough all-round players to play a top-six role in the NHL.

Flames organization completely mishandled Sven by treating him the same way they treated several other prospects who responded by passing him on the depth chart and establishing themselves on the team.
If I didn't know better, I would have thought we were talking about Oiler brain trust instead of spinning propaganda to make the Flames look as bad as possible.

Good job of grossly misrepresenting the whole situation.

fyp

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by theoforever

So, to sum it up the Sven situation:

Feaster handed keys to the city, and overhyped the kid.
Burke disliked the kid from the start and created a rift with the kid by stupidly running to the media and criticizing the kid, something that never should have been done.
Apparently, Treliving did little to improve the situation.
Hartley picked on the kid for every mistake.

As for Sven, he developed entitlement and attitude issues.
To his credit, he tried to correct it, plus he improved his defensive play, only to be punished by Bob for every mistake.
So, he asked to be traded, who wouldn't.

So thanks to Burke we lost a good prospect and Van got a talented young player to haunt us for the next decade.

Flames organization completely mishandled Sven.
If I didn't know better, I would have thought we were talking about Oiler brain trust.

Good job.

Can always count on you for irrational and inaccurate analysis.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Can always count on you for irrational and inaccurate analysis.

Here is my favorite poster again, as always suffering from fuzzy logic.
Which part is inaccurate?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hockey

Hopefully this turns out the same way the Markus Naslund trade did for us.

Well given that in one trade the Canucks received a 50-point NHL player in one, and an AHL player who has struggled to find a permanent spot in an NHL lineup in the other, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Dajazz]

Good.

He's played for four professional coaches. He's left every single one wanting.

Waiver next year, confidence issues, entitlement issues and an average offense skill.

How many raving reviews has he had since he became pro? Not many. He's been outworked and outplayed by his peers.

Decent passer and skater, ok shot. Lacks in quickness and thoughtprocess, and I am going out on a limb here, "character".

Flat development trajectory since he became pro.

Sounds like I hate the guy, I don't. He's exactly what the scouting report said, if he hasn't managed to improve since then, well thanks Vancouver and best of luck Sven.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Here is my favorite poster again, as always suffering from fuzzy logic.
Which part is inaccurate?

The part that begins with ‘So, to sum up’, and ends with ‘Good job’.

See my post above (#1062) if you want details.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The part that begins with ‘So, to sum up’, and ends with ‘Good job’.

See my post above (#1062) if you want details.

Are you the part of Hackey that does all the thinking?

Fact is that Burke should not have gone to the media, nothing good was going to happen. Sven did try to change but for the Flame organization it was too little and too late, apparently. If Feaster was still GM, Sven would have been playing for the Flames, probably well too.

Van is happy to have him, and why not.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Are you the part of Hackey that does all the thinking?

Fact is that Burke should not have gone to the media, nothing good was going to happen. Sven did try to change but for the Flame organization it was too little and too late, apparently. If Feaster was still GM, Sven would have been playing for the Flames, probably well too.

Van is happy to have him, and why not.

Every thing above is your opinion (one you are entitled too), none of it can be opened up with the statement "fact is" because none of it is fact. Stop asking people which parts of your post are inaccurate, because everything you've posted is a complete opinion piece. I don't say that critically, your opinions have merit, but stop trying to suggest they are rooted (did I get that right?) in facts that cannot be disputed.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Are you the part of Hackey that does all the thinking?

Cute quip, but incorrect.

Fact is that Burke should not have gone to the media, nothing good was going to happen.

No, that is your opinion.

Sven did try to change but for the Flame organization it was too little and too late, apparently.

Three years of no noticeable improvement? Yeah, that would be too little, too late for most teams.

If Feaster was still GM, Sven would have been playing for the Flames, probably well too.

Feaster was fired for several reasons. His excessive attachment to Baertschi may have been one of them.

You want facts? Here are some:

The Flames are a much improved team this year. They have done this, most games, with Baertschi out of the lineup. When he was in the lineup, he played minimal minutes and produced very little offence, and he is not known for being a defensive player. The previous two seasons, when Baertschi played in more games and got more ice time per game, the team was substantially worse.

From all these facts, I don't see how one can conclude that Baertschi was treated unfairly. I conclude that the team improved because a number of better players were brought in, and there just wasn't room for Baertschi in the improved lineup. If he isn't good enough to play even 50% of the games for a 25th-place team ('12-13) or a 27th-place team ('13-14), it's not surprising that he isn't good enough to be a regular on a 15th-place team. Even if he has been improving, he hasn't improved as fast as the team. He simply got left behind.

Which leads up to another fact: His waiver exemption is about to run out. If you're not going to play him, you have to move him or lose him.

I say that moving him is preferable to losing him on waivers (or to free agency because he refuses to re-sign). This, I grant you, is an opinion, but it is one that I think most people would agree with.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Cute quip, but incorrect.



No, that is your opinion.



Three years of no noticeable improvement? Yeah, that would be too little, too late for most teams.



Feaster was fired for several reasons. His excessive attachment to Baertschi may have been one of them.

In your opinion it is a good practice for executives to go to media with their player grievances?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Here is my favorite poster again, as always suffering from fuzzy logic.
Which part is inaccurate?

Take a look at Jay Random's response in #1062.

[Greybeard]

It seems like Sven is going to Utica. It will be interesting to see if the Canucks handle him the way he and many posters think he should be. Immediate promotion. Lots of ice time on top two lines, replacing Higgins or Daniel Sedin. To those that always thought Sven should be on top two lines who was he to replace. Johnny, Raymond, Glencross, Bouma?? I don't think so.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Every thing above is your opinion (one you are entitled too), none of it can be opened up with the statement "fact is" because none of it is fact. Stop asking people which parts of your post are inaccurate, because everything you've posted is a complete opinion piece. I don't say that critically, your opinions have merit, but stop trying to suggest they are rooted (did I get that right?) in facts that cannot be disputed.

I used the word 'fact' in regards Burke's media attack on Sven, it was a figure of speech, not sure why that is a problem but you are entitled to your opinion. I doubt criticizing a prospect in the media is a good strategy. I will put IMHO just in case.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by theoforever

In your opinion it is a good practice for executives to go to media with their player grievances?

In my opinion, it's not a thing you can generalize about. It is not a good practice to begin by going to the media. But if you discuss things with the player privately, and the coaches work with him on the problem, and it still persists, sometimes going to the media may be your last resort before giving up on the player altogether.

Would you be happier if Burke had never said anything about Baertschi in public, but traded him away for a 2nd-round pick at that time? Probably not.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by theoforever

In your opinion it is a good practice for executives to go to media with their player grievances?

I can't believe this gets as much attention as it does, even now. Many of those of us who are not overly bothered also agree that Burke's approach was far from ideal, but do you really believe that it had such a detrimental effect on young Baertschi that he lost playing time as a result?

He lost his place on this team this season and a full year removed from when Burke called him out.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by theoforever

I used the word 'fact' in regards Burke's media attack on Sven,

You said it was a fact that he should not have done it. That is not a fact, but a judgement. It's a reasonable judgement, but it's still possible for other people to disagree. By calling it a fact, you are portraying it as something that nobody could possibly disagree with. This makes it look like you are trying to shut down discussion.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by theoforever

So, to sum it up the Sven situation:

Feaster handed keys to the city, and overhyped the kid.
Burke disliked the kid from the start and created a rift with the kid by stupidly running to the media and criticizing the kid, something that never should have been done.
Apparently, Treliving did little to improve the situation.
Hartley picked on the kid for every mistake.

As for Sven, he developed entitlement and attitude issues.
To his credit, he tried to correct it, plus he improved his defensive play, only to be punished by Bob for every mistake.
So, he asked to be traded, who wouldn't.

So thanks to Burke we lost a good prospect and Van got a talented young player to haunt us for the next decade.

Flames organization completely mishandled Sven.
If I didn't know better, I would have thought we were talking about Oiler brain trust.

Good job.

Thank goodness you know better!

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think you have to give context to the Burke 'calling Baertschi out' event.

Getting demoted to the AHL caused a stir amongst the media. "Wonderkid" is being treated harshly. "Not given a chance". I think Burke was asked a question, and he was honest with the answer. Just happened to coincide with what Hartley obviously thought of him as well, so in essence, it 'Burke was backing up Hartley'.

Was it ideal? No. However, does anyone think for even a second that whatever Burke said was news to Sven? I am sure there was dialogue between Hartley and Sven already, especially since Hartley is a 'tough' coach, but one that also is very supportive and a good communicator. Just my opinion based on everything unfolding. I just don't buy any rationale that doesn't include some discussions with Baertschi himself.

[calgarywinning]

I would simply think that if someone like Burke takes the time to call you out that you would do everything in your power to prove him wrong and in doing so realize the wisdom of the time/effort/reason someone such as Burke was initially calling you out.