[Trade] Bouwmeester to Blues for conditional 2013 1st, Cundari and goaltender Reto Berra

[PeteLFan]

On the fan he said he is excited to be a flame, and knowing that we wanted him makes him want to play that much harder for us. He describes his game in great length too, I like a guy with something to prove.

[Badger Bob]

Don't get too wrapped up in the "deep draft" hype.

1997 was supposed to be deep. 16 years is adequate time to assess a draft.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1997e.html

Some superstars: Thornton, Marleau, Luongo, Hossa
Had decent careers: , Mara, Morrow, Hannan
Underachievers: Jokinen, Brewer, Boynton, Ference, Ward, Cleary, Noronen
Busts: Tkaczuk, Riesen, Zultek, Jones, Dome, Cherneski, Brown, Tselios, Damphousse, Grimes

(The bolded names were Flames at some point in their careers.)

A few names, who ended up having lengthy careers, turned up from the later rounds.

This is to give some thought to loading up, just for this year's draft. Several of those players will get hurt, not develop or not make it for any number of reasons.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Don't get too wrapped up in the "deep draft" hype.

1997 was supposed to be deep. 16 years is adequate time to assess a draft.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1997e.html

Some superstars: Thornton, Marleau, Luongo, Hossa
Had decent careers: , Mara, Morrow, Hannan
Underachievers: Jokinen, Brewer, Boynton, Ference, Ward, Cleary, Noronen
Busts: Tkaczuk, Riesen, Zultek, Jones, Dome, Cherneski, Brown, Tselios, Damphousse, Grimes

(The bolded names were Flames at some point in their careers.)

A few names, who ended up having lengthy careers, turned up from the later rounds.

This is to give some thought to loading up, just for this year's draft. Several of those players will get hurt, not develop or not make it for any number of reasons.

I really hope if we draft some underachievers, I hope the underachieve the way Jokinen and Brewer did.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Don't get too wrapped up in the "deep draft" hype.

1997 was supposed to be deep. 16 years is adequate time to assess a draft.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1997e.html

Some superstars: Thornton, Marleau, Luongo, Hossa
Had decent careers: , Mara, Morrow, Hannan
Underachievers: Jokinen, Brewer, Boynton, Ference, Ward, Cleary, Noronen
Busts: Tkaczuk, Riesen, Zultek, Jones, Dome, Cherneski, Brown, Tselios, Damphousse, Grimes

(The bolded names were Flames at some point in their careers.)

A few names, who ended up having lengthy careers, turned up from the later rounds.

This is to give some thought to loading up, just for this year's draft. Several of those players will get hurt, not develop or not make it for any number of reasons.

Didn't Tkaczuk have his brain scrambled? I always thought we were too hard on a guy rushed into the league who suffered a traumatic head injury and couldn't recover. That's not his fault; he was doing decent enough before the injury.

[Rhettzky]

I don't remember 97 being touted as deep but what a terrible draft for calgary. 10 picks and barely 80 games played between all of them combined.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Didn't Tkaczuk have his brain scrambled? I always thought we were too hard on a guy rushed into the league who suffered a traumatic head injury and couldn't recover. That's not his fault; he was doing decent enough before the injury.

Tkaczuk had nice chemistry with Val Bure. His selection wasn't a controversial pick. Hard to remember the exact circumstances, but, yes, he did have a concussion.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I really hope if we draft some underachievers, I hope the underachieve the way Jokinen and Brewer did.

The page has been turned on non-winners (and ex-long term Panthers!) like Huselius, Jokinen and Bouwmeester. If you accept mediocrity, then you had the Flames teams you deserved the last several years.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

The page has been turned on non-winners (and ex-long term Panthers!) like Huselius, Jokinen and Bouwmeester. If you accept mediocrity, then you had the Flames teams you deserved the last several years.

If the Flames draft a centre who ends up playing 1000 plus games and clips about a .70 point per game average including a couple of 80 point plus seasons with any of their picks this year they should do cartwheels.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Don't get too wrapped up in the "deep draft" hype.

1997 was supposed to be deep. 16 years is adequate time to assess a draft.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1997e.html

Some superstars: Thornton, Marleau, Luongo, Hossa
Had decent careers: , Mara, Morrow, Hannan
Underachievers: Jokinen, Brewer, Boynton, Ference, Ward, Cleary, Noronen
Busts: Tkaczuk, Riesen, Zultek, Jones, Dome, Cherneski, Brown, Tselios, Damphousse, Grimes

(The bolded names were Flames at some point in their careers.)

A few names, who ended up having lengthy careers, turned up from the later rounds.

This is to give some thought to loading up, just for this year's draft. Several of those players will get hurt, not develop or not make it for any number of reasons.

Don't forget Samsonov, picked 2 places below Tkaczuk. Good career, 700+ NHL games. Would have looked good in a Flames uniform.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

1997 was pretty bad. 2003 was supposed to be deep. Try that one.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

If the Flames draft a centre who ends up playing 1000 plus games and clips about a .70 point per game average including a couple of 80 point plus seasons with any of their picks this year they should do cartwheels.

The Flames should be drafting players to build a winning team around. Jokinen never demonstrated the ability to be part of a winning environment at any point in his NHL career.

Yeah, he had those 30+ goal seasons on a featured scoring line in Florida, where he knew he'd never have to exert himself in the post-season...because they never went. In terms of playoff no-show, he only made it to one 1st round through 6 different teams. Hard not to notice a pattern. BTW, he never came close to that 30 goals/season in Calgary.

Several spots below in that draft is Hossa. On the do-over, he's my pick.

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Don't forget Samsonov, picked 2 places below Tkaczuk. Good career, 700+ NHL games. Would have looked good in a Flames uniform.

Didn't forget him. Just didn't know how to classify him. IIRC, he was pegged higher up than his ultimate draft position. He was seen as more NHL ready from having starred in the IHL against older players. Very dynamic player. Could've been much more.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Don't get too wrapped up in the "deep draft" hype.

1997 was supposed to be deep. 16 years is adequate time to assess a draft.s.

1997 was supposed to be deep, since when? You're making stuff up.

I was about 15 at the time but I don't remember then, or any time since then people referring to 1997 as a deep draft.

[automaton 3]

Tkaczuk was actually looking to be a decent pick. He ran into some injury issues (concussion?) and never made it back to the NHL.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Tkaczuk was actually looking to be a decent pick. He ran into some injury issues (concussion?) and never made it back to the NHL.

Yeah, it was a concussion. I remember the Islanders passed on him at the draft because of supposed character issues but the guy was really good for us up until that concussion. He had 11 points in 19 games in his call up and had really good chemistry with Val Bure, he was 21 at the time and things looked good.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

1997 was supposed to be deep, since when? You're making stuff up.

I was about 15 at the time but I don't remember then, or any time since then people referring to 1997 as a deep draft.

Leading up to it, it was hyped as deep. A lot of it because of Thornton, and Samsonov got a lot of attention, too. Luongo was projected to be a star goalie. Even Tkaczuk was well-regarded after the WJC.

Not saying anything about how it was evaluated since. Point of the exercise is that in any 1st round there will be some who end up having great NHL careers, some having decent NHL and some will never make it. You can pick any year. In hindsight, '97 was probably not much better or worse than most other years.

Edit: It may have been "better than average."

When Patrik Stefan was 1st overall, then the twins:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1999e.html

Not a pretty sight.

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Don't get too wrapped up in the "deep draft" hype.

1997 was supposed to be deep. 16 years is adequate time to assess a draft.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1997e.html

Some superstars: Thornton, Marleau, Luongo, Hossa
Had decent careers: , Mara, Morrow, Hannan
Underachievers: Jokinen, Brewer, Boynton, Ference, Ward, Cleary, Noronen
Busts: Tkaczuk, Riesen, Zultek, Jones, Dome, Cherneski, Brown, Tselios, Damphousse, Grimes

(The bolded names were Flames at some point in their careers.)

A few names, who ended up having lengthy careers, turned up from the later rounds.

This is to give some thought to loading up, just for this year's draft. Several of those players will get hurt, not develop or not make it for any number of reasons.

Yeh, pick a random year that wasnt even considered deep and claim it as such. You may have a career in journalism ahead of you,

Or look at these.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2005e.html

[Flames Draft Watcher]

'97 and '99 were both pretty bad, both below average. You're picking a very biased sample of years so far.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

1997 was pretty bad. 2003 was supposed to be deep. Try that one.

Amazing first round, but Flames with the usual suspects after that.
After Phaneuf, Flames had 8 picks who played a combined 13 NHL games

But Flyers with Carter and Richards, Anaheim with Getzlaf and Perry. That's what a deep draft might get you, with multiple first round picks.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by gunnner

Yeh, pick a random year that wasnt even considered deep and claim it as such.

Dig through your old piles of THN Future Watch. Were you 15 then, too?

Originally Posted by gunnner

You may have a career in journalism ahead of you,

Guess what? Eric Duhatschek used write that the Flames brass said that there "whispers of Chelios" about Derek Morris.

Even the professionals, who scout for a living have a difficult task of projecting how 17 year olds will progress. Any kid can just sit here with hindsight and say, "oh, this was a great draft year" and one just did. Want to impress? Tell us who the superstars are buried in the mix for June.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

'97 and '99 were both pretty bad, both below average. You're picking a very biased sample of years so far.

'97 was way better than '99. BTW, my impression of Stefan is that he probably would've done better if he hadn't been on an expansion team, but that's how things go.