I'm not pretending to know who the better prospect is or who the better player is. All I'm saying is that the Flames should be taking the best player not the most marketable and not the most Canadian. Obviously they need to draft a player that they think will have the franchise in their long-term plans but that applies to Mackinnon as well.
Here's a scenario, Mackinnon says in the interview that he actually wants to play out east and be close to his family while Nichushkin wants to be on a team that supports him and provides him with the resources to integrate well into North America.
Perfectly possible scenario. In that case I take the player who I think will be the org and who brings more on the ice.
Yeah... perfectly possible, reasonable, whatever word you want...
History says that you take the Canadian, who won't be a flight risk, who has franchise player potential, who won't bolt once he comes a UFA.
Seriously though Feaster should not go off the board on this draft. If he does and says " my Assistant GM John Wiesbrod seen this guy play this ONE time and we feel he is going to be something in 4 years" He should be drawn and quartered at city hall. I don't see any reason to gamble at this draft when there is so many can't miss guys. The Flames don't need to go boom bust on this one.
I think that MacKinnon is the better prospect (just my opinion). And if all else is equal, then I would take the Canadian.
However, I could care less about marketing - that will take care of itself.
And I could care less about next year, it is pretty much a right-off already. Which is fine as the Flames need several core prospects and it will take more than one draft to get them.
I have never understood the 'he can play next year' argument. Who cares? I want the best player career-wise. I want the highest upside. I want someone who can help win a cup or 6.
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I have never understood the 'he can play next year' argument. Who cares? I want the best player career-wise. I want the highest upside. I want someone who can help win a cup or 6.
Simply because it would be nice as fans to have something to be excited about next season. That's all, plain and simple. The Flames have never had such a high draft pick. Every draft as a fan, I see them draft players and then really don't hear much about those players for years. It would be nice for once to see them draft a high end prospect that fits into the lineup next season.
Selfish? Sure, but I want to see it just the same.
Why? Because this team needs to start creating an identity. Right now, it doesn't have one. There's only Baerschi to be excited for next season.
Nichushkin, a Russian, is not a face you can sell as well as MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, or Barkov. Additionally, despite many scouts ranking Nichushkin 2nd overall, I've seen many more with these 4 locked in the top 4 in some way or another.
Why risk it? You can either take MacKinnon, who is constantly ranked top 3 (many first overall), who is Canadian, captain material, and will no question play in the NHL next season...
...or you can take Nichushkin, who will most likely wait until the 2015-2016 season to make his debut, is less marketable, and really, doesn't have good numbers in the KHL. And that's without mentioning that he's a winger.
I'm not going to act like I've seen Nichushkin play, but there are way too many red flags for a team in our position.
You should watch him. He's a force, if he gets any sort of angle(which he can create himself through shear force) he's gonna get to the net. He absolutely bullied Seth Jones for a goal(he made Jones look like he was Jaybo even though Jones tried getting a few shots in) and then destroyed Carolina 1st rounder Ryan Murphy.
Nichuskin is literally a bull. The same way Drouin can wow you with any of his stickhandling, you watch him and you're just amazed at his strength.
Start at :20 seconds. Alot of his goals are similar in that he'll just easily gain entrance to the zone and then just power to the net and jam it home.
Waiting for this kid would be worth it, I just don't know if you want him in the top 3....but you might have to take him there.
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Simply because it would be nice as fans to have something to be excited about next season. That's all, plain and simple. The Flames have never had such a high draft pick. Every draft as a fan, I see them draft players and then really don't hear much about those players for years. It would be nice for once to see them draft a high end prospect that fits into the lineup next season.
Selfish? Sure, but I want to see it just the same.
Well, I am pretty sure you'll get your wish as the top 3 are all NHL-ready.
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Can someone post all the Flames current draft picks for 2013 please? Thx
As far as I can tell... The Flames have their own pick in the First, Third, Fourth, and Sixth rounds.
They traded their own Second to Montreal in the Cammalleri/Bourque deal.
They traded their own Fifth to Washington for Wideman's rights.
They may have swapped Seventh round picks with Anaheim a couple of years ago when they acquired Logan MacMillan. Each team's seventh picks in 2013 were conditional, but the conditions are unknown. Since neither player involved in the trade did anything with their new team, I'd guess both teams will keep their picks.
Additionally, they have acquired:
Pittsburgh's First rounder in the Iginla deal.
St. Louis's First rounder in the Bouwmeester deal (assuming the Blues make the playoffs, if they miss, the Flames get St Louis's Fourth rounder in 2013 and First in 2014).
Columbus's Fifth rounder in the Comeau deal.
Ottawa's Seventh rounder from Chicago in the Karlsson deal.
To break it down...
First Round: CGY, STL (Conditional - likely), PIT
Second Round: None
Third Round: CGY
Fourth Round: CGY, STL (Conditional - unlikely)
Fifth Round: CBJ
Sixth Round: CGY
Seventh Round: CGY/ANA (Conditional - unknown), OTT
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As far as I can tell... The Flames have their own pick in the First, Third, Fourth, and Sixth rounds.
They traded their own Second to Montreal in the Cammalleri/Bourque deal.
They traded their own Fifth to Washington for Wideman's rights.
They may have swapped Seventh round picks with Anaheim a couple of years ago when they acquired Logan MacMillan. Each team's seventh picks in 2013 were conditional, but the conditions are unknown. Since neither player involved in the trade did anything with their new team, I'd guess both teams will keep their picks.
Additionally, they have acquired:
Pittsburgh's First rounder in the Iginla deal.
St. Louis's First rounder in the Bouwmeester deal (assuming the Blues make the playoffs, if they miss, the Flames get St Louis's Fourth rounder in 2013 and First in 2014).
Columbus's Fifth rounder in the Comeau deal.
Ottawa's Seventh rounder from Chicago in the Karlsson deal.
To break it down...
First Round: CGY, STL (Conditional - likely), PIT
Second Round: None
Third Round: CGY
Fourth Round: CGY, STL (Conditional - unlikely)
Fifth Round: CBJ
Sixth Round: CGY
Seventh Round: CGY/ANA (Conditional - unknown), OTT
hmm so we need to move Tangs or Cammy for a second + prospect then at the draft imo.
Why? Because this team needs to start creating an identity. Right now, it doesn't have one. There's only Baerschi to be excited for next season.
See, I don't get excited about players. I get excited about winning. Or rather, the prospect or building a team good enough to challenge the best in the conference in a playoff series.
I don't believe Canadian teams need to generate excitement around stars. Calgarians love NHL hockey. Our affluent executives love to schmooze clients at NHL hockey games. Whether or not we have a star attraction doesn't really matter much in the overall scheme of things.
I'm not overlooking the risks around Nichushkin. I just don't see any need to bring in a star attraction right away. That kind of thinking is what led this franchise astray. You know what the best kind of identity is? Winning. And it will take a lot of time and patience to build a real winner in this city. No rush.
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I think that MacKinnon is the better prospect (just my opinion). And if all else is equal, then I would take the Canadian.
However, I could care less about marketing - that will take care of itself.
And I could care less about next year, it is pretty much a right-off already. Which is fine as the Flames need several core prospects and it will take more than one draft to get them.
I have never understood the 'he can play next year' argument. Who cares? I want the best player career-wise. I want the highest upside. I want someone who can help win a cup or 6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinordi
Why should you care how marketable a player is? None of your arguments are based on the hockey he plays or on the contribution the player will have to the long-term success of the team. Ultimately, I could care less how marketable, Canadian or captain material a player is. I want to draft the best player. There are totally legit arguments that Mack is a better player than Nich. You seem to be, again, putting the short-term interests of the fans against the long-term prospects of the team because YOU want a player that you can cheer for next year instead of potentially a better player that wont play next year.
I honestly don't see how Nichushkin would fit with us. I realize his upside and talent and the scouts giving him high praise but we need centers, right wings and defensemen more than we need another left winger. If Nichushkin is picked by us if Mackinnon, Bakrov or Lindholm are still on the board i will be very pissed.
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The hype surrounding Nichushkin reminds me of the hype that was built up around another big Russian, Alexandr Svitov. There's way too much risk with this kid. Take players that have potential to play throughout the lineup if they don't completely develop. McKinnon, Barkov, and Gauthier jump out at me as guys that will play in the NHL in some capacity, and all have potential to be top end talents. They also don't come as a natural flight risk. The Flames need guys that have potential to be stars, but also are guaranteed of staying in North America and not bolting to the KHL at the drop of a hat.
So long before Seth Jones of the Portland Winterhawks, Nathan MacKinnon and Jonathan Drouin of the Halifax Mooseheads, Sean Monahan of the Ottawa 67's and Hunter Shinkaruk of the Medicine Hat Tigers begin a new season, they've already completed their "Central Scouting Questionnaire."
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