Self defense...are you new to this thread or something?
At worst...it was negligent manslaughter but the inept prosecution couldnt get out of their own way or subdue their egos to see that in the beginning.
I think it's more accurate to say that it wasn't proven to be murder under Florida law and that the possibility of self-defense gave reasonable doubt.
There are a tonne of unanswered questions that will never be answered because the only other key witness is dead. What we have are two theories. One backed by the defendant and his peers, and the other put forward by the prosecution.
From a legal stand point, I agree that you should not be able to convict someone on a theory. A defense on the other hand, has the right to use a theory to create reasonable doubt, so I am not necessarily against the verdict, but just pointing out that a "not guilty" verdict does not necessarily mean "innocent".
Even one of the jurors said that they wanted to convict him of something and asked about manslaughter, but that the way the law is applied, they couldn't.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 07-18-2013 at 10:00 AM.
If the roles were switched with the exact same circumstances would we have the same posters defending Martin for countless amount of pages? Or would he be looked at as a young thug out looking for trouble that deserves to be in jail for murder.
I'd bet that the most of the same posters criticizing Martin and sticking up for Zimmerman would be doing the total opposite had it been Martin who killed Zimmerman.
If the roles were switched with the exact same circumstances would we have the same posters defending Martin for countless amount of pages? Or would he be looked at as a young thug out looking for trouble that deserves to be in jail for murder.
I'd bet that the most of the same posters criticizing Martin and sticking up for Zimmerman would be doing the total opposite had it been Martin who killed Zimmerman.
I don't know about the rest, but if the information and our laws were the exact same, then I would have kept the exact same opinion. Burden of proof on discrediting Martin claim of self-defence by Zimmerman's prosecution. Martin, who had a gun, claims he was fearing for his life with Zimmerman, who was slamming his head against the ground. With no proof beyond reasonable doubt that Martin was lying through other testimony, Martin's story cannot be assumed to be false beyond reasonable doubt and he's found not guilty.
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Originally Posted by puckluck2
If the roles were switched with the exact same circumstances would we have the same posters defending Martin for countless amount of pages? Or would he be looked at as a young thug out looking for trouble that deserves to be in jail for murder.
I'd bet that the most of the same posters criticizing Martin and sticking up for Zimmerman would be doing the total opposite had it been Martin who killed Zimmerman.
Why would you think that?
The law is the law is the law. Thats the problem with this case. Under Florida law and its application to this case...the verdict was the only possible one the jury could have reached. Regardless what others say.
Those that keep wanting race to be a part of this decision keep overlooking one simple truth...if the roles were switched there would be zero chance of a guilty verdict based on the evidence and forensics presented.....and that would likely be with a judge a whole lot less favorable to the prosecution than this one was.
It was a very very weak case put forth by the State and its unfortunate form TM's family that they chose that path...or moreso that the Governor got involved to begin with.
If the roles were switched with the exact same circumstances would we have the same posters defending Martin for countless amount of pages? Or would he be looked at as a young thug out looking for trouble that deserves to be in jail for murder.
I'd bet that the most of the same posters criticizing Martin and sticking up for Zimmerman would be doing the total opposite had it been Martin who killed Zimmerman.
I know I would, although somehow I doubt this story would have anywhere near the attention that it does since it would not provide an opportunity for all these make believe social freedom fighters to call anyone that disagrees with them a racist.
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If the roles were switched with the exact same circumstances would we have the same posters defending Martin for countless amount of pages? Or would he be looked at as a young thug out looking for trouble that deserves to be in jail for murder.
I'd bet that the most of the same posters criticizing Martin and sticking up for Zimmerman would be doing the total opposite had it been Martin who killed Zimmerman.
Imagine if TM was cc'ing and saw Z walking through his neighbourhood wearing a hoodie and acting suspicious. TM follows an unarmed Z, stuff happens and TM shoots Z dead. THe police show up and immediately claim it was self defense and everyone goes home except Z, who is dead. TM gets arrested 44 days later after public pressure for the law to do something more than just decide it was self defense. TM walks free a couple of weeks later.
I wonder if people would still feel the same as they do now.
Imagine if TM was cc'ing and saw Z walking through his neighbourhood wearing a hoodie and acting suspicious. TM follows an unarmed Z, stuff happens and TM shoots Z dead. THe police show up and immediately claim it was self defense and everyone goes home except Z, who is dead. TM gets arrested 44 days later after public pressure for the law to do something more than just decide it was self defense. TM walks free a couple of weeks later.
I wonder if people would still feel the same as they do now.
no, because TM was black and he WOULD NOT walk away.
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no, because TM was black and he WOULD NOT walk away.
Rofl. Yet another poster has gone full ######.
So sad. So many posters I used to respect in this thread just not using both halves of their brain for this case.
And to people flipping the script, YES, I would feel 100% exactly the same way.
Let's add a couple more details:
- Trayvon is a well respected member of the community and has gained enough trust from the entire community to lead the neighborhood watch.
- Zimmerman dressed like a thug, was high on drugs and was skulking around houses.
And then the exact same thing occured. Trayvon was overzealous and tried to find Zimmerman's location after calling 911. Zimmerman punched Trayvon in the face, Trayvon tries to disengage but cannot because he's pinned to the ground. Then he shoots in self defence. Unfortunately the single shot goes through Zimmerman's heart.
Then yes, I would absolutely agree with the acquittal of Trayvon.
Frick guys. We're in Canada. The vast majority of posters have been brought up here in a tolerant, progressive society. It's insulting to accuse us of being racists that are incapable of looking at evidence. Frankly, it says a lot about your own character when you make these remarks.
You know, since we're going on hypotheticals here. What evidence would you (trayvon supporters) need to have in order for you to change your mind about this case? Or was he guilty 100% from the start regardless?
So sad. So many posters I used to respect in this thread just not using both halves of their brain for this case.
And to people flipping the script, YES, I would feel 100% exactly the same way.
Let's add a couple more details:
- Trayvon is a well respected member of the community and has gained enough trust from the entire community to lead the neighborhood watch.
- Zimmerman dressed like a thug, was high on drugs and was skulking around houses.
And then the exact same thing occured. Trayvon was overzealous and tried to find Zimmerman's location after calling 911. Zimmerman punched Trayvon in the face, Trayvon tries to disengage but cannot because he's pinned to the ground. Then he shoots in self defence. Unfortunately the single shot goes through Zimmerman's heart.
Then yes, I would absolutely agree with the acquittal of Trayvon.
Frick guys. We're in Canada. The vast majority of posters have been brought up here in a tolerant, progressive society. It's insulting to accuse us of being racists that are incapable of looking at evidence. Frankly, it says a lot about your own character when you make these remarks.
The event did not take place in Canada, rather in a country where blacks are treated harder by the law.
If the roles were switched with the exact same circumstances would we have the same posters defending Martin for countless amount of pages? Or would he be looked at as a young thug out looking for trouble that deserves to be in jail for murder.
I'd bet that the most of the same posters criticizing Martin and sticking up for Zimmerman would be doing the total opposite had it been Martin who killed Zimmerman.
I'm not sure that really works, as who the people are, their backgrounds and a host of other things factor into it. You can't just swap them without changing a host of other things.
For instance, it's probably less reasonable for a 6-0 180lb 17 year old to reasonably fear for his life in a fight with a doughy middle aged guy who is described as a 1 out of 10 in terms of fighting ability. That doesn't mean you couldn't present evidence to make it reasonable, but flipping the roles changes your starting point fairly significantly.
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So sad. So many posters I used to respect in this thread just not using both halves of their brain for this case.
And to people flipping the script, YES, I would feel 100% exactly the same way.
Let's add a couple more details:
- Trayvon is a well respected member of the community and has gained enough trust from the entire community to lead the neighborhood watch.
- Zimmerman dressed like a thug, was high on drugs and was skulking around houses.
And then the exact same thing occured. Trayvon was overzealous and tried to find Zimmerman's location after calling 911. Zimmerman punched Trayvon in the face, Trayvon tries to disengage but cannot because he's pinned to the ground. Then he shoots in self defence. Unfortunately the single shot goes through Zimmerman's heart.
Then yes, I would absolutely agree with the acquittal of Trayvon.
Frick guys. We're in Canada. The vast majority of posters have been brought up here in a tolerant, progressive society. It's insulting to accuse us of being racists that are incapable of looking at evidence. Frankly, it says a lot about your own character when you make these remarks.
You know, since we're going on hypotheticals here. What evidence would you (trayvon supporters) need to have in order for you to change your mind about this case? Or was he guilty 100% from the start regardless?
Who has done this? People are talking about what role race plays in the US legal system. I haven't seen a single post that calls anyone here a racist, I've seen plenty that point out that pretending race isn't a factor is naive.
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No, but you're accusing CP posters of not supporting Trayvon if the script was flipped.
Ie. You're calling me, and a lot of others in this thread racist. It might not have been you, but puckluck for sure.
Umm no, nobody called anyone a racist. Pointing out that race plays an issue in the legal system somewhere is not calling you a racist. What a bizarre conclusion to reach.
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No, but you're accusing CP posters of not supporting Trayvon if the script was flipped.
Ie. You're calling me, and a lot of others in this thread racist. It might not have been you, but puckluck for sure.
when? and where?
You are now making unsubstantiated allegations against me, please back them up. Further, those allegations towards me are pretty substantial, I in no way have called any poster here racist; Please reevaluate your post.
The history of minority treatment by police and the courts provides plenty of support for that position.
Zimmerman is also a visible minority.
Do you think that hispanics are well treated in American society? The idea that the justice system would side with an hispanic, especially one that had great political pressure against him, is ridiculous.
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The poverty rate was 27 percent for American Indians, 26 percent for African Americans and 23 percent for Hispanics.
I'm not saying that Zimmerman's motives weren't motivated by racism. That's totally possible. Blacks and hispanics can be racist towards eachother. But the idea that the justice system, or American society in general, is somehow pro-hispanic is ridiculous.
Do you think that hispanics are well treated in American society? The idea that the justice system would side with an hispanic, especially one that had great political pressure against him, is ridiculous.
I'm not saying that Zimmerman's motives weren't motivated by racism. That's totally possible. Blacks and hispanics can be racist towards eachother. But the idea that the justice system, or American society in general, is somehow pro-hispanic is ridiculous.
Care to point out where I said that?
Not sure if you're following along (sorry, didn't mean to sound rude there, just wasn't sure if you read the posts leading up to mine as the topic shifted a bit), but we were discussing what would happen if the roles were reversed. My comment, which you quoted, was in response to the idea that a young black male would be treated differently under that law. History shows that is not at all an unreasonable belief.
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