General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Muta

Cool story, but yes, they did expand geographically into the southern US. I thought that was obvious.

They moved yes, but no the league did not expand with them as that would have meant another team in the league...different thing from the expansion era where teams were added on both sides of the border.

[tjinaz]

Is this an NHL pride issue? If not, what is it?

I think it is a growth/mass media issue. They want to grow the league and get the big media contracts they have to go to the big US cities in the South and West. Its that simple. Adding a Winnipeg or QC does not further these aims. I am actually thinking some money from the NBC contract may be tied to presence in the large US metro areas.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by transplant99

They moved yes, but no the league did not expand with them as that would have meant another team in the league...different thing from the expansion era where teams were added on both sides of the border.

Well, you're a smart guy, I'm sure you knew what I meant... geographic expansion.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Muta

I think the leniency here is starting to aggravate fans. Why is everyone trying so hard to save a sinking ship? There's NEW and BRIGHTER ships out there!

Hahaha, that actually sounds like Flames fans gripes with Feaster's attitude towards a re-build.

Is there? Quebec seems to be the only real option, and even that option has a fair number of question marks around it at the moment. KC has a shiny building that might work. Otherwise I'm not seeing a lot of ships on the horizon.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

I think it is a growth/mass media issue. They want to grow the league and get the big media contracts they have to go to the big US cities in the South and West. Its that simple. Adding a Winnipeg or QC does not further these aims. I am actually thinking some money from the NBC contract may be tied to presence in the large US metro areas.

My thoughts as well. The Canadian market can only generate so much revenue for the league as a whole. People in Quebec are an already tapped market. A team there sucks a few more dollars out, but the gain is negligible. The reward in Phoenix is much greater, and at this point the risk is virtually zero as the losses are being largely covered. It's a no brainer, especially since the QC market isn't about to go anywhere.

[troutman]

GWI statement:

"This morning, Judge Cooper denied the Goldwater Institute’s motion for a temporary restraining order on the grounds that she felt the court lacked the authority to block the vote. Simultaneously, she issued a strong warning to the City of Glendale about the implications of moving forward today, affirming the Goldwater Institute’s contention that the city has committed “clear violations” both of court orders and open meeting laws.

She emphasized the court would be receptive to considering holding the city in contempt if the council moves forward with the vote, stating that sanctions would be in order. We hope the council will heed the judge’s warning, comply with the law, and give the public sufficient time to review the council’s proposed action."

[Muta]

Sounds like there's some angry residents that have huge issue with this vote going forward without the public's clear knowledge. Also, anger with the arena deal that no numbers are being publicly documented and presented.

[tjinaz]

She emphasized the court would be receptive to considering holding the city in contempt if the council moves forward with the vote, stating that sanctions would be in order. We hope the council will heed the judge’s warning, comply with the law, and give the public sufficient time to review the council’s proposed action."

Sounds like the court can't stop anything. Sanctions aren't going to do much to stop the vote or overturn it once it is made.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Sounds like the court can't stop anything. Sanctions aren't going to do much to stop the vote or overturn it once it is made.

One would assume sanctions would mean the court overturning the vote and make the council do it all over again.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

One would assume sanctions would mean the court overturning the vote and make the council do it all over again.

Sanctions (at least the way the word seems to be used here) would impose penalties but not nullify the result. Seems like an odd situation, the court can't do anything to prevent or change the result but they can hold the city in contempt? I'm not sure how that works.

[tjinaz]

I am not a lawyer but if that were the case I would expect the wording to be more like "reverse" or "overturn" not sanction or held in contempt

[Freeway]

From a hockey standpoint, the NHL should be in the business of putting teams in the 30 most stable/profitable markets. Full-stop.

It doesn't MATTER if Glendale has a terrible arena deal. It won't make the market any better for hockey.

[dissentowner]

I just heard a report that they have delayed the vote for 2 weeks. I hope that kills it finally.

[Muta]

The motion was rejected.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Muta

The motion was rejected.

Yeah, just heard that. This is ridiculous and a total gong show.

[troutman]

@NHLwiki: #NHL #Coyotes: Glendale lawyer Tindall now admits that the Judge did say that she would strike it down if the vote went through.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by pylon

It angers me there is a team in a City that doesn't give a flying f about it, when there are 5 Cities you could move the team to, right this second, that would support it 5 fold.

Really? Which five cities would be able to announce 60,000 fans per game?

It pisses me off when I am watching regular season games in Glendale, and there is an announced attendance of 13,000, and there is maybe 4000 in the stands like when you watch a Marlies or Heat game on community cable.

Did it piss you off so much when the Flames were announcing 13k and likewise had less than 10,000 in the actual building, just like the Coyotes? But more to the point, I echo Valo's question. Why does it piss you off? Honestly, how are you so harmed that you react with such venom?

It bothers me the NHL is cooking the books for some unknown reason, to keep this failure of a franchise afloat.

"Cooking the books"? You're back to making crap up again, which likewise undermines your argument.

It pisses me off that the NHL's reputation as a bush league 2nd tier sport, is augmented by the fact this travesty of an organization is somehow allowed to exist.

It's cute that you think situations like this are unique to the NHL, or that the league has a "reputation as a bush league 2nd tier sport" because of it (oh, and citation needed on that claim). Hell, this is far less ridiculous than how MLB handled the Montreal Expos final years. I'd rate it above how the NBA handled the Seattle Supersonics relocation as well. I guess they are bush league too...

The Phoenix Coyotes cheapen the sport of Professional Hockey, and the NHL brand. Period. And the NHL basically holding this city, and it's citizens hostage, make the NHL look like a bunch of racketeers.

Only an idiot would actually think that. The city itself wants to keep the team aorund. The NHL merely laid out terms. The city chose, of its own free will, to agree to them.

But man, if you get this butthurt about a hockey team located 2000 KM away, god help you if you come across any issues that directly affect you.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Freeway

From a hockey standpoint, the NHL should be in the business of putting teams in the 30 most stable/profitable markets. Full-stop.

It doesn't MATTER if Glendale has a terrible arena deal. It won't make the market any better for hockey.

Something tells me you didn't feel the same in the 90s. Though I am certain you would have greatly enjoyed watching the Houston Flames run to the 2004 Stanley Cup Final.

Not that I think Phoenix will ever rebound the way Calgary/Edmonton/Canada did, but lets face it, it is silly to deal in absolutes. The Coyotes are not profitable and I doubt they ever will be. But they are one piece of a plan hatched in 1990 that helped league revenues grow from $400 million to $3.3 billion. And if some sucker of an owner wants to operate the team in a sucker's market, more power to them. It was exactly that kind of thinking that allowed the Flames and Oilers to survive.

[calumniate]

It was almost heart wrenching for a bit, but this last council member is talking numbers and owning everyone pretty hard!

[GGG]

This question should be real simple for Glendale.

Will we spend more money over the next 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, and 20 years if we take this deal or if we let the team leave.

The summary numbers that were listed earlier in this thread said it was slightly better to keep the team. So the only other thing to look at is was the report done fairly and priced risk correctly or did it leave out potential other income if the Coyotes leave. This vote and this discussion should not be filled with emotion. It doesn't even matter if Phoenix is a viable market or not.

The only question is which is better for the city of Glendale and has that assessment been made in an unbiased manner.