Pentagon releases UFO videos

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by troutman

Check out 164: UFO Hearings with Special Guest Mark O’Connell
https://www.bethmund.com/casual-spac...-mark-oconnell

and here are the actual transcripts of the congressional hearing if you really want to dig in: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts...-22-transcript

It's a pretty even keeled discussion. Beth Mund does mention that having worked with NASA, that they do (or at least did) a lot of activities that were not public knowledge. Not every payload sent to space, test flight, or experiment is televised or advertised for public knowledge. Some UAP sightings can most likely be attributed to that.

[NOISIA]

Ufos are real.

[getbak]

Well, that certainly convinced me.


Now, maybe we can move the conversation on to all those dinosaur clones that are running around eating people.

[Jiggy_12]

Little bit more mainstream attention

https://time.com/6186451/nasa-ufo-study/

[Raekwon]

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by NOISIA

Ufos are real.

You are going to fit in here just great, until you are gone.

[Textcritic]

I just started listening to a great podcast about this:

https://somethinelse.com/projects/fr...k-alien-state/

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[FlamesAddiction]

China claims to have detected signals that could be coming from an alien civilization.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...bcab7b463a1194

Probably BS, but thought it was worth posting. Very few details in the claim and they seem to have removed the story without giving an actual retraction or follow-up.

[troutman]

https://www.space.com/possible-seti-...fast-telescope

Earthlings might eventually have to go to the far side of the moon to do SETI work.

"A radio telescope on the backside of the moon would be shielded from all of our planet's radio pollution," he said.

[Snuffleupagus]

Why have aliens never visited Earth? Scientists have a disturbing answer

Advanced civilizations could be doomed to stagnation or death

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Why have aliens never visited Earth? Scientists have a disturbing answer

Advanced civilizations could be doomed to stagnation or death

Someone's been playing too much Final Fantasy XIV...

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Why have aliens never visited Earth? Scientists have a disturbing answer

Advanced civilizations could be doomed to stagnation or death

TWO scientists suggest this reason, and take apart their own argument in their own paper. It really is an interesting read and they really do make some massive assumptions they readily say could be confounding factors to their own theory.

I've said this numerous times in this thread, the primary failure of many people approaching this issue is to make the expectation that other civilizations will evolve the same way as ours and that the constraints we place on our development and evolution should be applied to others elsewhere in the universe. Fortunately Wong and Bartlett identified this their discussion a significant weakness to their theory.

"Astrobiologists often caution against using the specific characteristics of Earthly life to guide our search for life elsewhere, because such details might be single instantiations of, rather than fundamental to, what life is. For example, Kempes & Krakauer [59] argue that replication is just one form of persistence, which is the more universal aspect of life. In a biosphere where self-replication of individuals is not the paradigm, evolution would proceed much differently, potentially resulting in different growth equations and macroscopic scaling laws. The idea of cities as an organizational structure of life may not even make sense in such a scenario."

I've also stated that SETI and other searches for extraterrestrial life may be barking up the wrong tree because they are looking for signs of life within our context and not theirs. We may be looking for signs of communication they would not be using as it is inefficient or too rudimentary. This is supported by recent publications and information releases.

This article suggests that communication may be taking place at the quantum level through the manipulation of photons, measured in the x-ray region of the spectrum. We wouldn't know a signal was there because we don't have the technology or understanding to detect such communication.

https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstrac...evD.105.123033

Another theory is that communication could be via signals buried in starlight and imperceptible to us because we don't have the understanding or technology to detect the variation in the photons or understand the encoded message based on the variation in photons.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2107.13023.pdf

We must challenge what we know and think well outside the box we have built for ourselves. Even using our own evolution as a possible framework, imagine if someone from 50 years ago were dropped into our current context, what would they think? Or someone from 500 years ago? Or how about 5,000 years ago? This world would be beyond their comprehension. We would be alien to them. And that is using our evolutionary context as the framework. The first thing we as a species must stop doing is anthropomorphizing every potential intelligence in the universe and consider their evolutionary path and technological developments. It is likely the path in a different star system is going to be radically different from ours, so why would we think we should expect those from other worlds to adhere to same technological development curves we followed? Think beyond what we think we know.

[GGG]

If we haven’t found our type of Life in the universe for whatever reason that doesn’t bode very well for us even if life exists in other forms in the universe.

[Mull]

Regarding the concept of aliens existing or not, doesn't it boil down to 3 options?

1. We are simply too early- We are the first - this isn't human arrogance, we could be the first
2. There are many great filters, including one in front of us which will wipe our existence. This would include the filter of creating life as well- this may be a much harder process then we assume, making life much rarer then we think- we just passed that filter. So if there is no alien life, that would fall in this category
3. We are too insignificant to be notice and don't have the ability/technology to notice other life- this may mean when we become significant enough we get wiped out

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GGG

If we haven’t found our type of Life in the universe for whatever reason that doesn’t bode very well for us even if life exists in other forms in the universe.

Personally I believe life in some form is everywhere, including in our own solar system.

Originally Posted by Mull

We are simply too early- We are the first - this isn't human arrogance, we could be the first

Not likely, modern humans are only about 300k old and only a couple of hundred years advanced...an extremely small blip in time over the age of the universe. It's more likely that millions of advanced civilizations have died out rather than us being the first.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Mull

Regarding the concept of aliens existing or not, doesn't it boil down to 3 options?

1. We are simply too early- We are the first - this isn't human arrogance, we could be the first
2. There are many great filters, including one in front of us which will wipe our existence. This would include the filter of creating life as well- this may be a much harder process then we assume, making life much rarer then we think- we just passed that filter. So if there is no alien life, that would fall in this category
3. We are too insignificant to be notice and don't have the ability/technology to notice other life- this may mean when we become significant enough we get wiped out

A fourth is that the universe is too large and intelligent life rare enough and the constraints of the universe fixed that communication between civilizations is not possible.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

A fourth is that the universe is too large and intelligent life rare enough and the constraints of the universe fixed that communication between civilizations is not possible.

So if there is life out there, but we have no way of detecting it or communicating with it, effectively we will be alone. Like if a tree falls in the forest merged with Schrodinger's cat, it is then a philosophical question. We can't ever know, and if that is the assumption, does it matter?

[Ozy_Flame]

I don't think the ET hypothesis should be considered as the be-all, end-all. As the U.S. government pivots towards formalizing UAP recording/tracking and building transparency among the various intelligence agencies and programs (slow, but surely), you're going to hear about ET's but also cryptoterrestrials, ultraterrestrials, multi-dimensional, non-visible light spectrum life, and possible 'time travel' future human hypotheses. Heck, even Congressman Mike Gallagher has been making public musings about the 'future human' hypothesis as the most likely scenario this year.

Lots of potential explanations if something is truly part of the phenomena.

[Fuzz]

Future humans make even less sense than aliens. If they know the past, then they'd know about this investigation. Presumably they don't want us to know about them, or they would have checked said "howdy doody from the future" by now. But they know we know about the phenomenons they cause, and don't want to be found out. The logical conclusion being the investigations must be inconclusive, and therefore pointless. Unless the plan is to deceive, in which case we would be led to a conclusion they want, not the truth.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mull

Regarding the concept of aliens existing or not, doesn't it boil down to 3 options?

No. There are dozens of theories about alien life and why we have never made contact. You can't swing Schrodinger's cat without hitting any one of these theories, some of which have already been brought up in this thread. Some of the popular ones I like to ponder.

Zoo hypothesis: Aliens refuse to contact us because of our current state of evolution and instead observe us as we would observe animals in a zoo. Like field researchers alien life forms may employ means to prevent us from seeing them, like a hunter would use a blind to hide their presence to their prey. I like this one and believe that if ET is visiting, they do so carefully and from their blind.

Laboratory hypothesis: Aliens use earth as a giant laboratory to conduct experiments. Humans are but another animal (we are) they consider something to observe and run tests on. I can get behind this one as well. We take a similar approach as we probe other planets in our solar system.

Prime Directive hypothesis: Aliens follow a rule of non-engagement with species not up to their technological or evolutionary levels. The earth may be a refilling station in the cosmos for interstellar travelers, but they make sure to get what they need and go without interaction.

Planetarium hypothesis: The universe is an illusion created by advanced civilization, manipulating energy and matter on a galactic scale, to give the appearance of it being empty of other life. In essence a big stage set has been built around our solar system to keep us contained.

Simulation hypothesis: We are living in a simulation created by a superior intelligence and it is observing the simulation as it takes place.

Aestivation hypothesis: Aliens are in a state of hibernation, allowing their technology to store energy as the universe cools and letting them take on larger tasks when they awaken.

Rare Earth hypothesis: We are unique and alone. Math seems to make this unlikely though.

Great Filter hypothesis: There is a barrier to development that makes detectable extraterrestrial life exceedingly rare. I actually agree mostly with this. There needs to be an intersection in ET's and our technology for us to detect each other, and that intersection will be fleeting. Of we are doing things remotely, there needs to be a common link between our technology or we will never see the connections.

Brief Window hypothesis: Kind of like the great filter, but based on the time civilizations exist and there being a window when the two may exist at the same time with the technology to communicate.

Transcension hypothesis: This suggests that rather than exploring the outer space of the universe, advanced civilizations explore their inner space at nano scales and eventually disappear from our view.

Ocean Worlds hypothesis: Aliens may be flourishing within the interior oceans of the moons of the gas giants and may be trapped there. It is possible that those aliens are already here in our oceans, and we have not yet found them.

Aurora hypothesis: Our biome may not be compatible with an alien life form and they just pass us by.

There are lots of others. Personally, I think we are being observed just as a scientist would observe their subject of study. I think we are not even close to the point in our evolution where an advanced civilization would consider reaching out to us. We are the most violent and self-destructive creature on this planet. We go out of our ways to create new and crazy ways to kill each other. We also do incredible damage to the very planet that gives us life. We are destroying the environment we need to sustain ourselves and further our species. If you observed any of this, would you reach out to that civilization or wait for them to get their #### together?

I believe, on a galactic scale, humans are viewed as a toddler. We don't have control over our own impulses, we don't have an understanding of the environment around us, and we definitely do not understand the universe. We put everything into our context, which may be incompatible with that of other life forms. Humans live 70-80 years on average. What happens if other life forms live hundreds or thousands of years? What type of game changer would that be? We think we're king #### of the universe but look at our existence and behaviors. Do we really behave like an "advanced civilization"? I can see why aliens would do everything in their power to stay hidden from us. We aren't ready to join the galactic community.

[Fuzz]

Zoo hypothesis
Laboratory hypothesis
Prime Directive hypothesis
Planetarium hypothesis
Simulation hypothesis

These all logically rely on the aliens not being detected, so if these are aliens we are seeing, they are doing a pretty poor job at that bit.