Israel declares war on Hamas

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel...538214?cmp=rss


Sooo....how many of the fervent supporters of Israel's path to this point can still sit back and not call it genocide? Anyone want to come argue that point anymore? Or y'all still too busy cheering on the genocide?

I always feel compelled to bring this up because people don't seem to understand the scale: the entire Gaza Strip is less than half the size of Calgary.

Just imagine a city that size (with >2 million people) being bombarded for 18 straight months, with all critical infrastructure, hospitals, etc. destroyed and aid actively being blocked. How anyone can know that and not think this is a systemic effort to get rid of the Palestinians is incomprehensible to me.

[CalgaryKid12]

It's a horrible situation all around. I sincerely sympathize with all the innocent people caught in the middle of this completely avoidable conflict.

Obviously I have a vested interest in one side, never shied away from that. But all I would like is all the hostages released and a lasting peace on both sides. I don't think that an unreasonable ask. Where viewpoints have differed in the past on this thread is how that is achieved.

There's a lot of criticism lobbied at the Israeli government (some valid, some not). But I'm genuinely curious how some of you on here foresee a lasting peace being achieved in the region.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

It's a horrible situation all around. I sincerely sympathize with all the innocent people caught in the middle of this completely avoidable conflict.

Obviously I have a vested interest in one side, never shied away from that. But all I would like is all the hostages released and a lasting peace on both sides. I don't think that an unreasonable ask. Where viewpoints have differed in the past on this thread is how that is achieved.

There's a lot of criticism lobbied at the Israeli government (some valid, some not). But I'm genuinely curious how some of you on here foresee a lasting peace being achieved in the region.

The first step is the cessation of all military activities by the Israeli military in Gaza and opening up of civilian aid.

That has to occur before anything else.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The first step is the cessation of all military activities by the Israeli military in Gaza and opening up of civilian aid.

That has to occur before anything else.

Weird that's not beyond obvious, eh?

If there's a kidnapping in NW Calgary, we don't start bombing Dalhousie, Edgemont, Hawkwood, Ranchlands, Silver Springs, etc. and cutting off food and medical care to all those communities. Why? Because that would be asinine, barbaric, unjust, evil, monstrous, inhumane and stupid. Same sorta thing here. A terrorist attack doesn't mean the entire population of two million must suffer in incomprehensible ways.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

It's a horrible situation all around. I sincerely sympathize with all the innocent people caught in the middle of this completely avoidable conflict.

Obviously I have a vested interest in one side, never shied away from that. But all I would like is all the hostages released and a lasting peace on both sides. I don't think that an unreasonable ask. Where viewpoints have differed in the past on this thread is how that is achieved.

There's a lot of criticism lobbied at the Israeli government (some valid, some not). But I'm genuinely curious how some of you on here foresee a lasting peace being achieved in the region.

Both sides are too set in their ways. There is only one solution to peace: one side has to leave.

Either the Israelis go back to Europe, or the Palestinians go to Syria/Jordan/Egypt etc.

They can't coexist, clearly.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

It's a horrible situation all around. I sincerely sympathize with all the innocent people caught in the middle of this completely avoidable conflict.

Obviously I have a vested interest in one side, never shied away from that. But all I would like is all the hostages released and a lasting peace on both sides. I don't think that an unreasonable ask. Where viewpoints have differed in the past on this thread is how that is achieved.

There's a lot of criticism lobbied at the Israeli government (some valid, some not). But I'm genuinely curious how some of you on here foresee a lasting peace being achieved in the region.

Set to maximum time period.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The first step is the cessation of all military activities by the Israeli military in Gaza and opening up of civilian aid.

That has to occur before anything else.

Can I add the cessation of continued bulldozing and illegal settlements in the West Bank? Still haven't heard from anyone on this board how that's also justified.

[PepsiFree]

It’s incredible that anyone is still defending or even excusing the Israeli government, but it’s absolutely audacious to trot out platitudes in the face of genocide.

If your response to these most recent events, which are just a continuation of this drawn out terror is “gosh, that’s a shame, but I just want everlasting peace but I’m all out of ideas” then it’s very clear what you’re OK with and how little you actually care about peace. Like I’m sorry, we all care about the hostages, but I question the intentions of anyone whose primary focus is still on those 58 people. How many more thousands of people will Netanyahu’s supporters accept dead and starving before they no longer buy their release as his goal?

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The first step is the cessation of all military activities by the Israeli military in Gaza and opening up of civilian aid.

That has to occur before anything else.

Fair. I would also add that both governments should step down and hopefully there could be some rational people step in and restart the peace process.

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Set to maximum time period.

Removed

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s incredible that anyone is still defending or even excusing the Israeli government, but it’s absolutely audacious to trot out platitudes in the face of genocide.

If your response to these most recent events, which are just a continuation of this drawn out terror is “gosh, that’s a shame, but I just want everlasting peace but I’m all out of ideas” then it’s very clear what you’re OK with and how little you actually care about peace. Like I’m sorry, we all care about the hostages, but I question the intentions of anyone whose primary focus is still on those 58 people. How many more thousands of people will Netanyahu’s supporters accept dead and starving before they no longer buy their release as his goal?

Removed

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

I actually don't think you care about Israeli hostages tbh

Based on what? Can you provide any posts or evidence that we don't care about the hostages? Or is it just easier for you to justify the actions of Israel by painting people with this brush?

This horse has been so beaten to death, it's so incredibly frustrating to have to continue to say that the actions of Hamas and the hostage taking don't excuse Israel's systematic and calculated destruction of Gaza, the West Bank, and the Palestinian people.

We all think Hamas and its actions are deplorable. Full stop. But for some reason people keep using the intense criticism of Israel as some sort of gotcha that we actually support Hamas and hate Israelis and don't care about the hostages. That is not the case.

Would it help if every single post in this thread started with "I condemn Hamas", just so you're reminded that two wrongs don't make a right?

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Based on what? Can you provide any posts or evidence that we don't care about the hostages? Or is it just easier for you to justify the actions of Israel by painting people with this brush?

This horse has been so beaten to death, it's so incredibly frustrating to have to continue to say that the actions of Hamas and the hostage taking don't excuse Israel's systematic and calculated destruction of Gaza, the West Bank, and the Palestinian people.

We all think Hamas and its actions are deplorable. Full stop. But for some reason people keep using the intense criticism of Israel as some sort of gotcha that we actually support Hamas and hate Israelis and don't care about the hostages. That is not the case.

Would it help if every single post in this thread started with "I condemn Hamas", just so you're reminded that two wrongs don't make a right?

No joke, it actually would. When I read through the thread, my interpretation is that there's a disproportionate criticism of the Israeli side vs the other.

[PepsiFree]

It’s almost like the death toll and civilian suffering has been wildly disproportionate.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

No joke, it actually would. When I read through the thread, my interpretation is that there's a disproportionate criticism of the Israeli side vs the other.

Of course there is. Because everyone agrees on Hamas being a terrorist organization, the events of Oct 7th being horrific, and that Hamas should go away forever. Some of us have also acknowledge how evil Israel is and their continuing roll in provoking the actions that have been levied against them.



So there is no point in posting about the former, but that latter sure seems to have a lot of head stuck in the sand people about the reality they support.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Weird that's not beyond obvious, eh?

If there's a kidnapping in NW Calgary, we don't start bombing Dalhousie, Edgemont, Hawkwood, Ranchlands, Silver Springs, etc. and cutting off food and medical care to all those communities. Why? Because that would be asinine, barbaric, unjust, evil, monstrous, inhumane and stupid. Same sorta thing here. A terrorist attack doesn't mean the entire population of two million must suffer in incomprehensible ways.

The trouble is the attack understandably angered and horrified Israelis enough to give Netanyahu and the Religious nutters free reign, I don't think anything is going to stop Israel now, they don't care anymore

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The trouble is the attack understandably angered and horrified Israelis enough to give Netanyahu and the Religious nutters free reign, I don't think anything is going to stop Israel now, they don't care anymore

Ethnic cleansing is the plan. They’ve said it out loud a couple days ago that is their goal, and it usually ends up worse than that.

[Fl4me5]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

]

Would it help if every single post in this thread started with "I condemn Hamas", just so you're reminded that two wrongs don't make a right?

No, but what would help is to put EQUAL pressure on both sides. It's always what Israel needs to do, not what Hamas needs to do.

I think the world would be better off if right from the get go of this conflict we all agreed to these four things:

1. Israel needs to reign back the violence, allow new government
2. Israel needs to provide more aid
3. Hamas must release the hostages
4. Hamas must surrender and allow new government

Can anyone disagree that points 1 & 2 have been focused on FAR MORE than 3 & 4?

Israel has made it clear that 1 & 2 will not happen without 3 & 4, so why is the world not pushing more for 3 &4?

[mogg]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

No, but what would help is to put EQUAL pressure on both sides. It's always what Israel needs to do, not what Hamas needs to do.

I think the world would be better off if right from the get go of this conflict we all agreed to these four things:

1. Israel needs to reign back the violence, allow new government
2. Israel needs to provide more aid
3. Hamas must release the hostages
4. Hamas must surrender and allow new government

Can anyone disagree that points 1 & 2 have been focused on FAR MORE than 3 & 4?

Israel has made it clear that 1 & 2 will not happen without 3 & 4, so why is the world not pushing more for 3 &4?

Because of the genocide. It is because Israel is committing a genocide.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

No, but what would help is to put EQUAL pressure on both sides. It's always what Israel needs to do, not what Hamas needs to do.

I think the world would be better off if right from the get go of this conflict we all agreed to these four things:

1. Israel needs to reign back the violence, allow new government
2. Israel needs to provide more aid
3. Hamas must release the hostages
4. Hamas must surrender and allow new government

Can anyone disagree that points 1 & 2 have been focused on FAR MORE than 3 & 4?

Israel has made it clear that 1 & 2 will not happen without 3 & 4, so why is the world not pushing more for 3 &4?

It is because the violence coming from Israel is much, much larger in volume.

Israel is currently holding 10,068 hostages or if you believe the state rhetoric "prisoners without trial".

Even if you exclude the 65,207 people killed, 99,968 wounded, or hundreds of thousands of peoples displaced. The violence is 10 times worse.