2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Monahammer]

Lindholm is the only player I am keeping no matter what. He's still been unquestionably our best forward, relatively consistently all season in spite of the god awful roster around him. His contract is stellar. He doesn't seem to be impacted by the feelings or moods of the team. He's a guy you keep. But I would sell literally anyone else.

[aaronkarlpatton]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Lindholm is the only player I am keeping no matter what. He's still been unquestionably our best forward, relatively consistently all season in spite of the god awful roster around him. His contract is stellar. He doesn't seem to be impacted by the feelings or moods of the team. He's a guy you keep. But I would sell literally anyone else.

I agree with this of we go down the retool route rather than rebuild.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Right now anything should be for sale. If you are going to commit to a rebuild Markstrom is the only guy who would be under contract at that time and he would no longer be a key piece.

I would trade Tanev for any teams first next year. Even take back a guy with similar money and less term on his deal to do it.

Flyers and Ghost would be a fit, but I don't see them spending futures to salvage this year.

FLA sending back Connolly++ would make a lot of sense, too. Maybe there would be a handshake agreement that we acquire Stralman after the season, too (if possible with his NTC).

[Muta]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe our players would do the same if they weren't confined to a 10' space from the boards? Sutter needs to own this just as much as the players. He's trying to get them to play a game of dinosaur hockey that doesn't work in this NHL era and is forcing square pegs into round holes. Use the talent you have and devise a style and game plan where they can be successful. Those two big centers are successful because they play in a system where the game is not constrained by "owning the wall" and grinding it out. The middle of the ice is where goals happen. The Flames spend 90% of their game within 10 feet of the boards. Maybe that's why they can't score?

Yeah this is my gripe with Sutter's system too. I'm not sure 'dump and chase' is really an effective strategy with this roster, given that that style requires speed (we don't have), and strength on the boards (far from leaders in this area). Wonder if Sutter has a gameplan to adjust? I'd wager to say he doesn't...

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe our players would do the same if they weren't confined to a 10' space from the boards? Sutter needs to own this just as much as the players. He's trying to get them to play a game of dinosaur hockey that doesn't work in this NHL era and is forcing square pegs into round holes. Use the talent you have and devise a style and game plan where they can be successful. Those two big centers are successful because they play in a system where the game is not constrained by "owning the wall" and grinding it out. The middle of the ice is where goals happen. The Flames spend 90% of their game within 10 feet of the boards. Maybe that's why they can't score?

Nobody wants to talk about this though because they don’t want to believe it cause Sutter is an “elite coach.”

This is the most hopeless I’ve felt about this team in a long time. Probably the last time was when B. Sutter was the head coach cause the hockey wasn’t even enjoyable to watch.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Gaudreau and Giordano are the big tickets that need to be moved in my eyes, and retaining 50% of their salaries seems like a perfect way to maximize the return.

It would maximize the return, but I doubt that the Flames are going to be rebuilding. I think the Flames are going to try and retool first, and if they do, then the only contracts that they will retain on are the expiring ones for this trade deadline only - probably Rittich and Ryan. IF they do blow it up and go for a full-rebuild (which I would be shocked with, but not necessarily disagreeing with), then I would hope they retain.

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe our players would do the same if they weren't confined to a 10' space from the boards? Sutter needs to own this just as much as the players. He's trying to get them to play a game of dinosaur hockey that doesn't work in this NHL era and is forcing square pegs into round holes. Use the talent you have and devise a style and game plan where they can be successful. Those two big centers are successful because they play in a system where the game is not constrained by "owning the wall" and grinding it out. The middle of the ice is where goals happen. The Flames spend 90% of their game within 10 feet of the boards. Maybe that's why they can't score?

What you are describing is a lot more like Brent Sutter hockey - everything against the walls. That's not what we are really seeing here.


When the Flames are able to move the puck quickly, they don't dump it in. You see them generating off the rush a bit more (and looking much more dangerous). Darryl just doesn't want pucks turned-over. If there isn't something to generate, you dump it in and use the forecheck. Make sure you don't give up odd-man rushes at any time, that's all. It isn't all against the boards. Flames are just not moving the puck faster.


Brent was the 'against the wall' guy. Zone exits were up the boards, NEVER up the middle. Have a chance on the rush? Nope, you dump the puck in and start the cycle! Darryl was rumoured to want to fire Brent back then, and that team wasn't able to score, but they were solid defensively from what I remember. They were playing too defensive - too much focus on mistake-free hockey, and making sure that they don't turn the puck over. Darryl allows for much more offensive freedom - but the team as a whole is suffering from a lack of speed. I think a big issue is the defence, actually.. or the confidence maybe. They simply aren't moving the puck fast enough to cause much confusion off the rush, and then they have to dump the puck in and get the forecheck going. Plus, it seems every time they cheat on offence (defence pinches or joins the rush), the puck is being turned the other way and goes in the back of the net.


This team is definitely trying to generate off the rush, but they are just doing an incredibly lousy job of it, and then they have to go to plan B, which is dump it and retrieve it.

[Stanley]

The problem is we don't have the players to consistently execute the system in place

...and it would help if we had more "top-shelf" goal scorers

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Muta

Yeah this is my gripe with Sutter's system too. I'm not sure 'dump and chase' is really an effective strategy with this roster, given that that style requires speed (we don't have), and strength on the boards (far from leaders in this area). Wonder if Sutter has a gameplan to adjust? I'd wager to say he doesn't...

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Nobody wants to talk about this though because they don’t want to believe it cause Sutter is an “elite coach.”

This is the most hopeless I’ve felt about this team in a long time. Probably the last time was when B. Sutter was the head coach cause the hockey wasn’t even enjoyable to watch.

This was my warning to those who wanted Sutter so badly. His style is not a fit to the talent. When you make decisions of this magnitude - hiring a transformational manager - you have to look at the entirety of the organization and understand if the individual is a good fit with the assets you have to work with, or if you are willing to commit to a complete and total tear down of things. The investment in something like this needs to be understood as it goes well beyond the scope of just the big team. This is an organizational change and it should be driven by the direction the game is going, not by sentimentality and what happened in the past. Unfortunately I think sentimentality and loyalty to the last coach who had any semblance of success was the driver for the power base within ownership.

The most difficult thing for the fans to understand is the overall change that will have to take place throughout the organization. It isn't just trading Gaudreau or Monahan and thinking we're good to go, this hiring affects the entire organization because the needs change with the style the coach puts into play. Sutter's style is very much "own the wall" and "grind out goals." This leads to two significant problems for the Flames. First, Sutter's style relies on size and beef to achieve success. People don't appreciate the Stanley Cup teams in L.A. were big and had plenty of beef. The Flames have too many small players to rely on this style of game. Worst, and this is the second part of the problem, the minors best players are all small and rely on speed and skill. The big guys we do have are all slow and lacking that NHL talent the team needs. So with bringing in Sutter and making a three year commitment to him, the Flames have pretty much committed to making change to suit the coach's needs. This means getting bigger, not smaller. That is going to require an incredible turnover in ranks. It also means the team is going to move in a direction counter to the rest of the league. This is the part that concerns me the most as it could mean a change in philosophy and a decade or more to rebuild this team, a rebuild that may not even be aligned with the game the NHL is playing. This could be the decision that we will be taking about for the next two or three decades (those of us who will still be on this mortal coil anyways).

[blankall]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe our players would do the same if they weren't confined to a 10' space from the boards? Sutter needs to own this just as much as the players. He's trying to get them to play a game of dinosaur hockey that doesn't work in this NHL era and is forcing square pegs into round holes. Use the talent you have and devise a style and game plan where they can be successful. Those two big centers are successful because they play in a system where the game is not constrained by "owning the wall" and grinding it out. The middle of the ice is where goals happen. The Flames spend 90% of their game within 10 feet of the boards. Maybe that's why they can't score?

I have to admit I was pretty excited when Sutter was hired, but that was more of a OMG this is really messed up kind of way. The reality of the Sutter hiring is starting to set in, and I'm quite concerned.

The Flames team in particular is very bad at board play. We have an offence built around Gaudreau. With board heavy and dump/chase hockey we are essentially neutralizing Gaudreau for the other team. When other teams want to shut down Gaudreau they double team him, play the body, and confine him into the boards. Sutter is doing that for them. How much fun is this for Gaudreau? He's a smaller player now forced to play the body, when he's spent his entire career avoiding being pinned into the boards with a game based around being elusive. It's pretty much a guarantee that Gaudreau will not be on the team at the end of his contract (maybe that was already coming, who knows).

So the Flames basically need to blow it up or find a top line centre/wing combo that can produce like Gaudreau/Monahan were 2 years ago. And it has to be a specific kind of top line talent, as only certain types of players can succeed under Sutter's rigid system.

If the Flames do blow it up, what kind of talent are they developing? Are we going back to drafting grinders? The NHL has changed and way more focused on smaller skilled players. If we draft one of those players is Sutter going to force them into a grinding/checking role? Unless we somehow get Kopitar or Iginla 2.0 are we sunk?

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1379102082205106182

Wallmark was a guy a few posters wanted in the off-season. He hasn’t had a great year (3 assists in 16 games) and he makes $950 k this year. Not that the Flames are interested in doing anything at all, but this is a decent young NHLer that could play if we plan to ship out players at the deadline.

[Psytic]

I dont know that getting bigger is going against the trend in the NHL. Most teams on average are 6"1 or trending towards 6"2. Flames are dead middle with out adding Phillips. I dont see a path to success with multiple guys coming through the pipe under 6 ft and with average to slow team speed to boot. Unless we are talking Kane Level talents.

The Flames are neither fast nor big. Every team wants big, skilled and fast so it is easier said than done though. The Flames seem to be going for okay speed, high IQ (in a handful of guys), doesn't seem to be working. The high IQ plays seem to get snuffed out by speed and size making for a perimeter team because teams are setup already or they can muscle the Flames out of the high danger areas. So if they want to continue to go small, high IQ then they better get faster. If they want to get bigger like Vegas or the Jets that's fine to it works. Or if we end up with a team of Lindholm's ie above average in every category maybe thats not a bad thing either. The mix needs to change though. Small and slow to average speed is the only archetype that seems to be against the trend of the NHL no matter the IQ. If you cant make the high IQ plays because your either too slow to get to the high danger areas or too small or too lazy than its moot. Its probably why the Sens can consistently #### can the Flames to, They are top 5 in size and work a lot harder.

The team isnt really "built" towards anything they arent a fast team anymore. They arent a big team. They dont have above average IQ outside of a handful of guys. So to say the whole team philosophy will change... they dont really have too much of an identity as it is right now. I believe it will take almost as much time to make this a Sutter team as it would a Johnny team. Many here claim you cant build around a winger but here we are wondering why the team isnt hiring coaches around a winger. It dont work. Consider them the Kessell Leafs at this point.

The specific coach, personnel needs, style needs required to get decent production out of 1 player. It doesnt make sense. The probability to catch that lightening in a bottle again is minimal. He isnt Kane.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Sandman

After the season Tanev has had, any team with the desire to go deep in the playoffs would pay a pretty hefty ransom for him. I don't necessarily want him to leave, but it would depend on the return.

Trading players who just signed long term deals 6 months ago is how you never sign free agents again

[dino7c]

The fact that decent players clear waivers every day doesn't make the trade market seem very promising

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

Trading players who just signed long term deals 6 months ago is how you never sign free agents again

I mean all things considered is that such a bad problem to have? Maybe saves the next GM from himself a few times.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

Trading players who just signed long term deals 6 months ago is how you never sign free agents again

Not if you’re saving a veteran from wasting time going in to a rebuild, when he thought he was signing with a contender.

[ForeverFlameFan]

D. Ryan to the Canes @50%? He’s familiar with a decent chunk of the team.

[Poe969]

I agree that Lindholm is the best forward on the team but if the team was actually going scorched earth (a dream, I know) I would flat out ask him if he would be ok staying for a rebuild because if he wasn't I think he would be one of the first I would trade. The reason I would trade him is because he likely has the most value on the team, he's on a good contract and is a good 2 way player who just always seems to be doing well. If you can get a top prospect + for a guy like that it would really help the rebuild.

This all seems like a mute point because I honestly see the Flames adding players at the deadline and during the off season instead of doing an actual rebuild. This team is just mind bottling.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The fact that decent players clear waivers every day doesn't make the trade market seem very promising

It's 100% a buyers market. It's a terrible time to try and re-tool. Teams that are actually willing to take on salary right now are so few, they can go in dry and make you thank them for it.

It really sucks, but people need to be patient. The economic climate (very little revenue, flat cap). Quarantine time means players acquired may only end playing 10 or fewer games before the playoffs. Player for player trades mean teams will have gaps in their line-up for at least ~5 games while fighting for playoff positions.

Teams with the actual cap space to take on salary have limited partners right now and are inclined to wait until after the playoff where the playoffs and quarantining don't matter.

Then of course, the upcoming expansion draft complicates things for a lot of teams.

It's just not worth it to try and retool at this moment with all those other factors at play, especially for a season will have an asterisk next to it, figuratively.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Not if you’re saving a veteran from wasting time going in to a rebuild, when he thought he was signing with a contender.

They aren't going into a rebuild. There will be changes to the core(hopefully) but people who think the team is going to get gutted and start over are dreaming.

They massively underachieved this season but when they play to their potential they can be a good team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I agree that Lindholm is the best forward on the team but if the team was actually going scorched earth (a dream, I know) I would flat out ask him if he would be ok staying for a rebuild because if he wasn't I think he would be one of the first I would trade. The reason I would trade him is because he likely has the most value on the team, he's on a good contract and is a good 2 way player who just always seems to be doing well. If you can get a top prospect + for a guy like that it would really help the rebuild.

This all seems like a mute point because I honestly see the Flames adding players at the deadline and during the off season instead of doing an actual rebuild. This team is just mind bottling.

I hold out hope that "mute" was a joke, because of "bottling".