Ongoing Calgarians complaining about pedestrian bridges thread

[CaptainCrunch]

And this is something that I don't clearly understand, those design issues are all due to location of the bridge, yet they built this bridge close to the other main cross over bridge.

why not move the bridge to a crossing area that doesn't need to have those complexities thrown in, and not having peirs in the water was a design choice by the city and not a neccessary requirement.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ribbed for her pleasure.

always thought they should be ribbed for my pleasure.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

always thought they should be ribbed for my pleasure.

Just flip the damn things inside out, you'll end up in the hospital but have the time of your life.


And if you think bridge politics is bad, my hometown wants to remove a half sunken boat, and it's a big deal

Municipality still seeking ways to deal with submerged Cape Ann III

Regardless of what you think of your new bridge/Chinese finger trap/ribbed sheep's skin, it's nicer than:

[burn_this_city]

From the Herald today..

Despite reassurances to the contrary, do you think taxpayers will end up on the hook for the extra costs of the Peace Bridge?

Yes
95.63 %

No
4.38 %

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

To add to what Thneed has said, I recall reading that there were a few restrictions placed on the design as well. Perhaps someone who knows the specifics can help me out here, but I believe that there were not supposed to be any piers in the water and the height was also restricted by the nearby heliport. Both of those things alone would have an impact on the design and cost regardless of who designed it, and also differentiate it from a typical cement girder bridge over a much narrower roadway, for example.

Which is exactly what calling this design lazy is... lazy.

[transplant99]

Nenshi kind of sums this whole thread up....

“Both sides hardened and the bridge became symbolic of something — it was a cowboy and hippie dynamic,” says Nenshi.

“If you didn’t like the bridge, you were called a redneck who didn’t believe in beauty. If you liked the bridge you were a total hippie who didn’t understand the value of money.”

Nenshi recalls seven or eight years ago when he had a layover in Milwaukee.

With time to kill, he visited an “unbelievably gorgeous building.” It was the Milwaukee Art Museum and it was designed by Calatrava.

“How many people go to Milwaukee for the art museum?” he asks

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum.../17937506.html

[MrMastodonFarm]

Disappointing quotes by the Major.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Disappointing quotes by the Major.

Yes, just what I posted in the museum funding thread. Stuff like this adds to the tapestry of a city. Saying people will come just to see this bridge is silly, but dismissing it because people won't come just to see it is silly too.

[Jedi Ninja]

The column is Rick Bell's spin on what Nenshi thinks about the bridge, it may not be Nenshi's thinking exactly. My take on Nenshi's previous statements on the bridge in the past is that he is not opposed to either foot-bridges or avant-garde architecture projects, but he does oppose bad public process, and the process that led us to the bridge -- even if it did or does have a positive outcome in the end -- was seriously flawed and must be fixed. In cliche: the ends do not justify the means.

[transplant99]

The column is Rick Bell's spin on what Nenshi thinks about the bridge, it may not be Nenshi's thinking exactly.

Ummm...its Nenshi's own words, a quote directly from him. No spin needed.

[Jude]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ummm...its Nenshi's own words, a quote directly from him. No spin needed.

Because single sentence quotes can't be taken out of context, right?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Disappointing quotes by the Major.

Why? Because of the Milwaukee thing? Maybe. Though not incorrect I get that it plays to the cowboy hippie dynamic he was talking about.

Honestly the rest was refreshing, but maybe I am missing the point.

[frinkprof]

This post will partly parallel my post in the Edmonton Museum thread.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nenshi kind of sums this whole thread up....




http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum.../17937506.html

While I agree with Nenshi on a great many things, including these exact words, I don't agree with the position that the words were used to support.

Nenshi brings up the Milwaukee example saying that he saw the art museum without actually having gone to Milwaukee specifically to see it. Lo and behold, look at what he is bringing up, rather unprompted, 7 or 8 years later.

-------------

Now I'd like to address this part of the article:

“Both sides hardened and the bridge became symbolic of something — it was a cowboy and hippie dynamic,” says Nenshi.

“If you didn’t like the bridge, you were called a redneck who didn’t believe in beauty. If you liked the bridge you were a total hippie who didn’t understand the value of money.”

I was actually going to make a post the last time this thread was bumped that touched on this.

The bridge project has, probably more unfairly than not, become a battleground where war has waged between the ends of various false dichotomies. Suburbs vs. inner-city, cultured vs. uncultured, fine art aficionados vs. McLean-Creek-frequenting-weekend-warriors, right vs. left, cyclist fags vs. road-raging car lovers, mouth breathers vs. the self-declared-enlightened, and as Neshi puts it, cowboys vs. hippies. Right vs. wrong, for or against.

I think most of the contributors to this thread are guilty of it. I tread over this ground myself in an earlier post when I declared myself a "supporter" of this project, whatever that actually means in a practical sense.

I think it's a shame that it's happening, regardless of whether it's over the Peace Bridge or some other project or issue. The project itself has good aspects and it has bad aspects. The problem with what the issue has become is that a lot of it isn't really about weighing the good against the bad anymore. Those "for" it are blinded to the bad, and those "against" it are blinded to the good. The positions of for and against have become proxies for being "conservative" or "liberal;" "cowboy" or "hippie."

I don't know if I've captured all my thoughts on the subject, so maybe I'll wait for any responses as a chance to clarify.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jude

Because single sentence quotes can't be taken out of context, right?

Not sure what context you are looking for. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

If there is something else to it, then post it. Otherwise I wold suggest they are very fair and even comments.

[Jude]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not sure what context you are looking for. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

If there is something else to it, then post it. Otherwise I wold suggest they are very fair and even comments.

No one is arguing whether the process leading up to the delay of the bridge was disastrous or not, but that's not where the battle lines are being drawn. The root argument is whether the government should be funding architecturally appealing (aka expensive) works.

My only problem is Rick Bell (who has been very vocal about his opinion on the bridge) quoting Nenshi as saying, "How many people go to Milwaukee for the art museum?", and following it up with, "How many fewer for a footbridge?". That's a very fair and even comment without actually knowing the context of the quote? Okay then.

The Milwaukee Art Museum was also an, "unbelievably gorgeous building", but that was predictably not expanded upon besides a footnote that Santiago Calatrava also designed the Art Museum.

[SebC]

I don't like speaking for others, but since Nenshi's already been brought into this I might as well go ahead.

Nenshi sees arts and culture as social infrastructure. They're not for visitors (although, attracting visitors helps) but for Calgarians. Arts, culture, architecture etc. are what help Calgary compete globally for the type of people who drive business in the city.

What we really know about what makes businesses succeed is that businesses succeed when they can attract and retain the talent that they need in order to do their jobs. [...] We play in a global pool of talent now, and we need to attract the very best in the world to our city. So helping business succeed also means investing in the urban fabric: investing in arts, investing in culture, recreation opportunities, and complete walkable, liveable, exciting communities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtuZr8hot0c

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Disappointing quotes by the Major.

No he's right. The bridge won't attract anyone to the city so you might as well not even try to make the city interesting.

That said this whole thing has been a mess from the start, while I think the bridge will add some interest to the city they definitely could have chosen a nice cheaper bridge to build that was still interesting.

We have important things like airport tunnels to build, and vintage airplanes to restore!!

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

they definitely could have chosen a nice cheaper bridge to build that was still interesting.

I thought this was already debunked earlier in this thread?

How much cheaper were you thinking?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by bomber317

I thought this was already debunked earlier in this thread?

How much cheaper were you thinking?

Hmm. I must have missed that. If that's the case, even better! I just remember reading all this information about cheaper bridges that could have been built, but I may not have read into all the details.

If that's the case ignore that part of my comment, I don't want to derail the thread!

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Hmm. I must have missed that. If that's the case, even better! I just remember reading all this information about cheaper bridges that could have been built, but I may not have read into all the details.

If that's the case ignore that part of my comment, I don't want to derail the thread!

There were some thought that the bridge could be built in the 3-5mil range which isn't possible for the type of bridge they were looking for.

if you were thinking 10-25%, then yeah, it's probably doable but I'm no engineer/supplier/construction guy/drafter/architect... so yeah.....