[News] With the 13th OA pick the Flames select RW Matthew Coronato

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yes Francis' opinions are valuable. He gets paid to write about them.

In other words, you believe that each and every person who is paid to write about hockey has an equally valuable insight into the game, and nobody else has any insight at all. Nice to know, but I expect it from you.

As for the rest, I wonder when the last time is that poster actually read anything written by Pronman.

But you didn't bother to ask, did you? Just jumped to the conclusion that the poster isn't allowed an opinion.

I guess in your little world only professional hockey writers are allowed an opinion about other professional hockey writers.

His description of Pronman shows he doesn't even understand what he writes about.

Or that you don't understand what he was actually saying about Pronman.

So given he didn't even know that, I would hypothesize he doesn't read him ever and just decided he sucks.

Today I learned that hypothesis = proof, but only when it comes from A PROFESSIONAL JOURNALIST!!!!!! (peace be upon them all, bow down, bow down, we're not worthy, we're not worthy!!!!)

Each to their own. I think that's a poorly formed opinion.

Because your wild-ass guess about how the opinion was formed is definitive.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK so who is left? Who doesn't suck?

From my experience here, only the ones who support my opinion.

[AustinL_NHL]

Not that I hate Pronoman. Like, good for him for making a career out of this and he most definitely watches prospects much more than most (including me obviously), but personally, that guy is 100% a complete hack to me and one of, if not the only prospect evaluator that I couldn't care less about what he says.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

In other words, you believe that each and every person who is paid to write about hockey has an equally valuable insight into the game, and nobody else has any insight at all. Nice to know, but I expect it from you.

Didn't say that at all.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

But you didn't bother to ask, did you? Just jumped to the conclusion that the poster isn't allowed an opinion.

Also didn't say that. He can have an opinion and that opinion and how it was formed can be challenged.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I guess in your little world only professional hockey writers are allowed an opinion about other professional hockey writers.

Also didn't say that.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Or that you don't understand what he was actually saying about Pronman.

Perhaps. He is welcome to clarify.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Today I learned that hypothesis = proof, but only when it comes from A PROFESSIONAL JOURNALIST!!!!!! (peace be upon them all, bow down, bow down, we're not worthy, we're not worthy!!!!)

Also didn't say that.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Because your wild-ass guess about how the opinion was formed is definitive.

Ok.

[jaikorven]

I don't understand the jump on Jiri bit here. The comments made that he rebutted were not useful, yet he is the one being picked apart...Jesus.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by jaikorven

I don't understand the jump on Jiri bit here. The comments made that he rebutted were not useful, yet he is the one being picked apart...Jesus.

I've defended Pronman before and people seem to have this reaction. And I don't get it.

He is one of the few people out there that offers in-depth coverage of NHL prospects. Frankly his articles don't help him, because they suggest his views are more extreme than they are. If you read his articles and listen to his podcast you understand more what's behind the views and understand the nuance. And he freely will admit when he's been wrong.

But before guys like him (and Button, and Wheeler) this material didn't exist at all. We had nothing, apart from a single issue from THN each year, that really offered a view into team prospects across the NHL.

So I don't get why people dislike guys like Pronman so much. What are they reading instead? Bader is a newer voice on the scene, and I find his stuff interesting too. I like it all.

Are there better resources out there I'm missing?

[Monahammer]

Unpopular opinion around here but i will continue to state it: I think Coronato has very questionable NHL offensive upside.

IMO we are missing the chance to maximize his value to our roster right now.

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Unpopular opinion around here but i will continue to state it: I think Coronato has very questionable NHL offensive upside.

IMO we are missing the chance to maximize his value to our roster right now.

fwiw, my neighbour played against him a handful of times from 15-17. he told me that Coronato was the best player in every game he played against him.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Unpopular opinion around here but i will continue to state it: I think Coronato has very questionable NHL offensive upside.

IMO we are missing the chance to maximize his value to our roster right now.

I don't know why, but he reminds/gives me a Chuck Kobasew vibe.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So I don't get why people dislike guys like Pronman so much. What are they reading instead? Bader is a newer voice on the scene, and I find his stuff interesting too. I like it all.

Are there better resources out there I'm missing?

To be honest, I doubt the critics are reading anyone. It’s probably not any more complicated than see the Flames prospects given a low ranking = the writer is an idiot.

[TheScorpion]

I have no issue with putting the Flames low on the overall rankings ... but as someone who has watched a whole heck of a lot of the Heat over the past two seasons, including Connor Zary at his very best with the team, I can't see any rationale for where Pronman placed him in his Flames rankings. Feels to me like he hasn't come off his assessment of the player in his draft year.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I don't know why, but he reminds/gives me a Chuck Kobasew vibe.

I was thinking Reinprecht but yes, that resonates with me too.

[TheScorpion]

Kobasew went unselected in his first year of draft eligibility before being inexplicably taken high in the first round as a 19-year-old. Dunno if I see the comparison.

These days, Kobasew would've been a second-round pick at best.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by manwiches

fwiw, my neighbour played against him a handful of times from 15-17. he told me that Coronato was the best player in every game he played against him.

I mean, I would hope so.

Count me in the group that would be very okay selling high on this player - American, Harvard man, 5 ft 10 183, questionable skating…

If he’s not signed by the end of the season, I’d rather trade him than an undrafted 1st.

I do still think we need him to be a real player, but if he’s not down to go for it with this group, I’ve seen how that movie ends.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Kobasew went unselected in his first year of draft eligibility before being inexplicably taken high in the first round as a 19-year-old. Dunno if I see the comparison.

These days, Kobasew would've been a second-round pick at best.

I’m not sure. Over a PPG in your first college season is pretty impressive even today, he might go first round still.

More likely though is he’d get drafted in the top 2 rounds in his first draft year with the numbers he had in the BCHL, similar to Jost

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Didn't say that at all.

I quote:

‘Francis' opinions are valuable. He gets paid to write about them.’\

And about Pronman:

‘He's done very well to make a career where his opinions are valued enough that he makes a living writing about them. Not bad.’

This is the hack's argument. Look, I'm a writer myself: I know what goes into the sausage. The quality of your opinions is very seldom what gets you paid for them, and you don't get to pull that on me. I know it is entirely bogus.

Also didn't say that. He can have an opinion and that opinion and it was formed can be challenged.

I quote again:

‘But you opinion, when you admit you didn't even read the article, is pretty useless.’

In other words, you are explicitly saying that his opinion about the writer is of no value unless he has read this particular article. That also is a foolish argument. As the old saying goes, you don't have to eat the whole egg to tell if it's rotten.

Also didn't say that.

You repeatedly defended the opinions of Pronman and others based solely on the fact that they are paid to write them. You denigrated a poster's opinion merely because he disagrees with the professional. That is tantamount to saying that only a professional's opinion matters.

Look, as I said, I know what goes into the sausage. Op-ed writers aren't paid to write their opinions; they are paid to write certain quantities of wordage on time, on topic, and according to policy.

Thousands of people could do the job as well or better in terms of content, but they don't get those jobs because they haven't proved that they will meet those three criteria. Thousands of others used to do that job, but quit because they can make a better living doing something else. There is nothing special about being a professional journalist, and absolutely nothing special about the quality of a journalist's opinions.

Everybody is entitled to form whatever opinion they like about Pronman's work, and to express it. The fact that he gets paid is utterly irrelevant to the value of those opinions.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I have no desire to spend my time arguing with you about this. You are not accurate in terms of how you are representing what I said. But I also know you won't let it go. And arguing with you isn't enjoyable for me. So I'm done with it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I have no desire to spend my time arguing with you about this. You are not accurate in terms of how you are representing what I said.

I quoted you verbatim.

I don't expect you to enjoy arguing with me. I expect to call you out for being grossly wrong. To say that someone was paid to write a piece is not a valid argument that the piece has any value as fact, as opinion, or as argument. The dollar is not a unit of truth or reason.

[Major Major]

Weird to hear people downplay Coronato after having a great world jr where his game was widely praised. Feels like hot takery at best. Uninformed nonsense at worst.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I quoted you verbatim.

I don't expect you to enjoy arguing with me. I expect to call you out for being grossly wrong. To say that someone was paid to write a piece is not a valid argument that the piece has any value as fact, as opinion, or as argument.

Most media is garbage because it is just all opinion with little fact to back them up. Same extends to hockey, especially when it comes to projecting futures. The guys that do get paid to write about this stuff do tend to have access to more information and have more on the line, so it is reasonable to conclude they may have more insight on the subject. That isn't to say they are right or wrong, as a lot of them don't use that access to information nor apply any critical thought to what they write. There's guys that use video, others use spreadsheets, but the one thing they have in common is they are presenting their opinions and nothing more. Some have more credibility because of their time around the game or the team they cover. Others have little because they are more fans than they are objective journalists. In the long run, it's all noise.

The dollar is not a unit of truth or reason.

Marble Freedom Trust disagrees with you.