Israel declares war on Hamas

[Language]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

Right, I was more trying to highlight Trump’s green light for total ethnic cleansing.

Total ethnic cleansing? That’s hyperbolic, to say the least. Gaza is a mess and in ruins because of the war that Hamas started. The people there are going to be living in a hell hole for the next eternity. I’m pretty sure the world is also wising up and no one is going to want to invest billions in a rebuild, only to see it get wiped out again the next time the terrorists running the place decide to start another war. The best thing for the Palestinians is to either move somewhere else permanently like hundreds of millions of other refugees have in history, seeking a better life. Or to have Jordan/Egypt/other Arab nations accept them on temporary refugee status while Gaza gets absolutely rebuilt, with foreign investment, and some sort of day after plan that actually includes foreign powers ensuring that no terrorist activity can ever be re-activated.

Let’s be real, there’s no two state solution coming as the Palestinians envision it, with East Jerusalem as their capital. That ship has sailed a long time ago. The best they can hope for is a thriving Gaza, and there would have been nothing wrong with that (Singapore, Monaco get brought up as examples), which has always been an attainable goal with the right leadership.

It’s actually astonishing that relocation of Gazans is being discussed, and it’s a failure of Palestinianism.

As someone put it: “Decline every reasonable peace deal, decline every two-state solution offered; launch intifadas and rape-murder pogroms, and vow to destroy your neighbours… The result is, you push people into thinking these extremes are the only solutions left on the table. Their actions on 7th October could end up hurting Gazans even more than they ever imagined.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PepsiFree]

“No. (Ethnic cleansing) was the endgame of most Israelis from the beginning. Too bad the people of Gaza were poisoned by the rot that is Hamas.

“Total ethnic cleansing? That’s hyperbolic, to say the least …The best thing for the Palestinians is (ethnic cleansing).”

ethnic cleansing
noun [ U ]
UK /ˌeθ.nɪk ˈklen.zɪŋ/ US /ˌeθ.nɪk ˈklen.zɪŋ/

The organized, often violent attempt by a particular cultural or racial group to completely remove from a country or area all members of a different group

It’s like some of you guys don’t even hear yourselves. Or it’s just masks off since Trump got elected, like so many others. Absolutely insane stuff to trot out casually, and even more unhinged to do it while gaslighting people into believing you’re against what you’re advocating for lol. Gross.

[Language]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“No. (Ethnic cleansing) was the endgame of most Israelis from the beginning. Too bad the people of Gaza were poisoned by the rot that is Hamas.

“Total ethnic cleansing? That’s hyperbolic, to say the least …The best thing for the Palestinians is (ethnic cleansing).”



It’s like some of you guys don’t even hear yourselves. Or it’s just masks off since Trump got elected, like so many others. Absolutely insane stuff to trot out casually, and even more unhinged to do it while gaslighting people into believing you’re against what you’re advocating for lol. Gross.

I don’t recall any “ethnic cleansing” attempts by Israel on Oct 6th. It’s almost like starting wars and kidnapping hostages, including babies, has consequences. Perhaps Palestinian leadership needs to look in the mirror for the never-ending suffering of their people. It’s not “ethnic cleaning” or “genocide” to lose wars that you’ve started. Any blockades or hardship they face is due to the self sabotaging primarily caused by their own leadership.

Criticize what I’m saying all you want, but I have yet to see you present any sort of viable solution or alternative based on current state of things. I’m all for Palestinians remaining in Gaza and for the enclave being rebuilt into a functioning, thriving, non-radicalized nation-state. How it gets there is what’s being discussed. Throwing out “ethnic cleansing”, similar to how “genocide” is being thrown around, is just another buzzword meant to capture the hearts and minds of the gullible who can’t see things for what they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

I don’t recall any “ethnic cleansing” attempts by Israel on Oct 6th. It’s almost like starting wars and kidnapping hostages, including babies, has consequences. Perhaps Palestinian leadership needs to look in the mirror for the never-ending suffering of their people. It’s not “ethnic cleaning” or “genocide” to lose wars that you’ve started. Any blockades or hardship they face is due to the self sabotaging primarily caused by their own leadership.

Criticize what I’m saying all you want, but I have yet to see you present any sort of viable solution or alternative based on current state of things. I’m all for Palestinians remaining in Gaza and for the enclave being rebuilt into a functioning, thriving, non-radicalized nation-state. How it gets there is what’s being discussed. Throwing out “ethnic cleansing”, similar to how “genocide” is being thrown around, is just another buzzword meant to capture the hearts and minds of the gullible who can’t see things for what they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

“It’s OK guys, Hamas started it so anything including ethnic cleansing goes. But wait, ethnic cleansing is just a buzzword, even though it’s what I’m advocating for and directly describing. War crimes, genocide, ethnic cleansing, they’re just words!”

Perhaps people like yourself need to look in the mirror. You want to talk about buzzwords meant to “capture the hearts and minds of the gullible”? How about treating a terrorist attack as nothing more than a convenient justification for all the things you pretend aren’t happening? Mentioning “babies” like you cared for one second about any of them. Why pretend man? You don’t care about the people whose lives have been lost. You don’t care about hostages. You don’t care about babies.

You’re not a serious person. Take the hate somewhere else. Nobody wants to read your gross justifications for ethnic cleansing.

[Language]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“It’s OK guys, Hamas started it so anything including ethnic cleansing goes. But wait, ethnic cleansing is just a buzzword, even though it’s what I’m advocating for and directly describing. War crimes, genocide, ethnic cleansing, they’re just words!”

Perhaps people like yourself need to look in the mirror. You want to talk about buzzwords meant to “capture the hearts and minds of the gullible”? How about treating a terrorist attack as nothing more than a convenient justification for all the things you pretend aren’t happening? Mentioning “babies” like you cared for one second about any of them. Why pretend man? You don’t care about the people whose lives have been lost. You don’t care about hostages. You don’t care about babies.

You’re not a serious person. Take the hate somewhere else. Nobody wants to read your gross justifications for ethnic cleansing.

Now you’re telling me what I do and don’t care about? Have you ever stepped foot in the region, to truly understand what it’s like there? Do you have family there? Have friends fighting in the war? Real rich to be projecting what others seemingly do and don’t care about, all the while being suckered into a false narrative, from the friendly confines of your comfortable existence. I let myself out of this conversation a while ago, and should have stayed out. You can continue to scream ethnic cleansing and genocide until your lips turn blue. Only the most gullible have been fooled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

Now you’re telling me what I do and don’t care about? Have you ever stepped foot in the region, to truly understand what it’s like there? Do you have family there? Have friends fighting in the war? Real rich to be projecting what others seemingly do and don’t care about, all the while being suckered into a false narrative, from the friendly confines of your comfortable existence. I let myself out of this conversation a while ago, and should have stayed out. You can continue to scream ethnic cleansing and genocide until your lips turn blue. Only the most gullible have been fooled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s true, but the irony of you being the one to say it is lost on you.

[afc wimbledon]

I think it is too easy and tempting to view any conflict, and especially this one, in black and white terms, the vast majority of Palestinians would welcome some compromise that left them with some kind of self determination, a country of sorts, obviously the bigger the better, but most would accept Israel has won and isn't going anywhere and they need to accept a deal

Most Israelis also would be happy to have an end to the constant rocket attacks from both North and South, the endless need to be on a war footing, the checkpoints and massively greater security at airports, the dominance of right wing parties that come as the Israeli equivalent of the 'Law and Order' lobby in the west.

The problem is on both sides there are a small very powerful minority that want the absolute destruction of the other side and the complete takeover of all the land and don't care what the cost in lives are (on the Arab side) or just dont pay any real cost (on the Israeli side)

Hamas wanted a genocide, as many dead women and children as possible, as the right wing in Israel did, the two sides colluded to create the destruction.

Both sides are reprehensible but if you don't think this was exactly what Hamas as well as right wing Israel wanted you are a moron, this was always the outcome that the excuse of Oct 7th was going to create, that was the whole point of the 7th, to goad Israel into a massive violent and genocidal reaction in order to polarize an Islamic world that frankly has lost interest in Palestine.

Where Hamas screwed up was miscalculating the effect the Ukraine conflict had on Russia's ability to project power and the domino effect having Israel invade Lebanon followed by the fall of Assad, my guess is when they (Hamas) assess the effects of the conflict they will see it as a massive defeat not due to the situation in Gaza but because of the situation outside, I doubt Gaza gets rebuilt to any great degree, Iran is broke, the rest of the Arab world is either also broke or in thrall to the west/Saudi, the poor souls stuck there will be desperate to get out and move anywhere else.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think it is too easy and tempting to view any conflict, and especially this one, in black and white terms, the vast majority of Palestinians would welcome some compromise that left them with some kind of self determination, a country of sorts, obviously the bigger the better, but most would accept Israel has won and isn't going anywhere and they need to accept a deal

A big part of the problem is that Palestinian leaders make a lot of money by keeping the conflict going. Peace is bad for business and IMO, a big reason why October 7th happened when it did, was because things were becoming too stable. Yasser Arafat made billions from "aid" which his family now in the UK lives off of. This didn't go unnoticed by the current leaders in Gaza and West Bank.

I'm also not convinced that it is a small minority that doesn't want a two-state solution. Obviously Hamas and their supported don't want it as it isn't mentioned anywhere in their 1988 charter. In fact, it outrights states that a Palestinian state should include all of "Mandatory Palestine". Past opinion polls indicated that even at the street level, a two state solution wasn't overly popular (sometimes 50-50, sometimes less). Maybe that changed since the war in Gaza, but I am not holding my breath.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A big part of the problem is that Palestinian leaders make a lot of money by keeping the conflict going. Peace is bad for business and IMO, a big reason why October 7th happened when it did, was because things were becoming too stable. Yasser Arafat made billions from "aid" which his family now in the UK lives off of. This didn't go unnoticed by the current leaders in Gaza and West Bank.

I'm also not convinced that it is a small minority that doesn't want a two-state solution. Obviously Hamas and their supported don't want it as it isn't mentioned anywhere in their 1988 charter. In fact, it outrights states that a Palestinian state should include all of "Mandatory Palestine". Past opinion polls indicated that even at the street level, a two state solution wasn't overly popular (sometimes 50-50, sometimes less). Maybe that changed since the war in Gaza, but I am not holding my breath.

This applies to both sides though, Israels right wing and religious parties are in power and making a fortune from being Judaism's only hope, this war has kept Netanyahu out of jail and in power, they are just as reliant on permanent conflict as Hamas

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A big part of the problem is that Palestinian leaders make a lot of money by keeping the conflict going. Peace is bad for business and IMO, a big reason why October 7th happened when it did, was because things were becoming too stable. Yasser Arafat made billions from "aid" which his family now in the UK lives off of. This didn't go unnoticed by the current leaders in Gaza and West Bank.

I'm also not convinced that it is a small minority that doesn't want a two-state solution. Obviously Hamas and their supported don't want it as it isn't mentioned anywhere in their 1988 charter. In fact, it outrights states that a Palestinian state should include all of "Mandatory Palestine". Past opinion polls indicated that even at the street level, a two state solution wasn't overly popular (sometimes 50-50, sometimes less). Maybe that changed since the war in Gaza, but I am not holding my breath.

Reports were that Israel and Saudi Arabia were on the verge of announcing a peace deal, as in it was days or weeks away. This likely would have paved the way to comprehensive peace deal. It would have resulted in the Arab League putting pressure on Qatar to stop funding Hamas.

It also would have created a unified front against Iran.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by blankall

Reports were that Israel and Saudi Arabia were on the verge of announcing a peace deal, as in it was days or weeks away. This likely would have paved the way to comprehensive peace deal. It would have resulted in the Arab League putting pressure on Qatar to stop funding Hamas.

It also would have created a unified front against Iran.

A close friend was part of a delegation that went to Saudi Arabia, and then the group went to Israel. It was very eye opening for the Saudis to travel in Israel, he made it seem like what happens when a North Korean visits another country.

[flylock shox]

Amazing. One meeting with Netanyahu and Trump is all in on the ethnic cleansing solution to Gaza.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Oh the Masters of Definition are back to instruct us about the very important and tiny nuances around ethnic cleansing.

Good times.

[Fuzz]

Jared Kushner, President-elect Donald Trump’s son-in-law and close confidant, on Wednesday doubled his stake in an Israeli financial firm that stands to gain from turbocharging Israeli settlements in Palestine — just before the announcement of a ceasefire deal that Kushner may have helped advise on.

https://www.levernews.com/as-ceasefi...i-settlements/

Because of course they need to profit off of it, too. Something something Hunter Biden though, I'm sure. But this is different, right? Ya. ####in' ghouls.

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by Language

Total ethnic cleansing? That’s hyperbolic, to say the least...The best thing for the Palestinians is to move somewhere else permanently...

tO sAy ThE LeAsT

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by Language

Total ethnic cleansing? That’s hyperbolic, to say the least...The best thing for the Palestinians is to move somewhere else permanently...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't mean to troll you. I actually think that it's in Israel's best interests to expel all Palestinians from their territory. You can't have a bunch of angry youngling Palestinians growing up to be Israeli hating jihadists hell-bent on getting revenge.

But call it what it is brosephski. You're using all the right words already.

[Zoller]

I said this in the USA thread but I'll repeat it here.

I truly believe Israel should send the Palestineans to Europe as refugees.

Ironically, Europe can't say no because of what the Nazis did to the Jews in WW2.

It's the perfect plan—guilt trip those Europeans into taking a bunch of unwanted Palestineans.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Lol that says lot when you say "Gazans" have released the hostage and not Hamas.

They're one and the same though, it's an easy mistake, I know.

Hamas is Gaza's official government. You say "Israel" did this and that, not "Israel's government" did this or that, right? The very next thread reads "Russia invades Ukraine" rather than "Russian government decided to invade Ukraine". Actions of Hamas, as Gaza's ruling party, are actions of Gaza. That's common and widely accepted way to describe actions of a government as an action of a nation, in the context of politics.

[Pointman]

Seems like the end game is that USA will be ruling the whole Palestine. Would it be via one puppet state that spans whole region (Israel), two puppet states (Israel and Palestine-as-US-puppet) or even three if they separate Gaza and West Bank (divide and conquer, you know, divide), doesn't matter much in the big picture.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zoller

I don't mean to troll you. I actually think that it's in Israel's best interests to expel all Palestinians from their territory. You can't have a bunch of angry youngling Palestinians growing up to be Israeli hating jihadists hell-bent on getting revenge.

But call it what it is brosephski. You're using all the right words already.

I have grown up in a country which had 27 millions killed by Germans. I belong to an ethnicity which Germans officially wanted to exterminate and they did it to 2/3rds of it before they were stopped. As a child, I have personally spoke with people, including my Jewish USSR soldier grandpa, who went through the war. This Friday I'm flying to Germany. No, not to blow them up. For a work trip.

This whole "next generation of avengers" thing is blown out of proportion, if not entirely made up. One would need to seriously brainwash people to go for it. It takes a huge money flow, to create a bunch of suicidal avengers. Unless totally brainwashed, people just don't go on suicide bombing missions because one nation did some horrible things to your nation.