Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[blender]

Originally Posted by Regorium

At what point does the forces fighting a correction actually capitulate?

I just can't imagine builders sitting on empty plots because noone is willing to pay 1.5M to put a spec estate home (but maybe 1.2M is the right price). What would have to happen in your opinion to see builders start moving on their pricing? You mentioned that move-in ready homes are starting to show a bit of the strain in the buying markets, so there's gotta be some pressure and a future breaking point right?

Good questions.
It is important to be clear that there are different business models. For example, you reference builders with lots building homes as speculation, which may be what most people think of when they think of "homebuilders". We have been it that marketplace on a small scale, but typically our residential work is building custom homes for clients who already own their own land. Totally different dynamics.

In our case, we find that our clientele isn't much affected by market forces or interest rates. If you are wealthy and planning to build your dream home, you typically don't abandon it if the prime rate goes up. First-time home buyers are obviously in a different situation.

The spec home market will be very susceptible to mortgage rates, both on the purchaser side and the developer/builder side, as carrying costs for construction financing are tied to lending rates as well. I wouldn't want to have a stock of houses sitting on the market right now.

Both of these markets (custom and spec) are not particularly relevant to the discussion of affordable housing, as neither is particularly affordable, certainly not in the context of getting people out of rentals or off the streets. I believe that is another discussion that must include multi-family buildings. I don't believe there is an answer to affordable housing that involves single-family homes. We will see, I suppose.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Azure

Is there some kind of new housing construction method where the entire build is done with this supposed lumber that has come down in price so much?

Trusses
Floor Joists
OSB
Sub Floor
Framing Material

Has come down in price.

Foundation Work
Cement
Windows
Doors
Electrical
HVAC
Cabinets
Roofing Material
Appliances
Flooring
Countertops
Insulation
Drywall
Paint
AND Labor

Has not come down the same way. Some has continued to get more expensive.

But definitely more interested to learn about your housing construction method where you can build an entire house with just lumber.

Also consider things like vehicles. A promaster van has increased in price by 60% since the pandemic.
Commercial lease rates are skyrocketing. I know a business owner who bought his own building, as he would rather pay the mortgage on it than the 60k/year increase to the lease!
Fuel goes without saying.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by blender

Also consider things like vehicles. A promaster van has increased in price by 60% since the pandemic.
Commercial lease rates are skyrocketing. I know a business owner who bought his own building, as he would rather pay the mortgage on it than the 60k/year increase to the lease!
Fuel goes without saying.

Transportation is a big one.

Heating costs to build in the winter are huge as well.

Honestly not that hard to see how rising costs + labour shortage + massive demand = prices gone crazy.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Azure

Transportation is a big one.



Heating costs to build in the winter are huge as well.



Honestly not that hard to see how rising costs + labour shortage + massive demand = prices gone crazy.

That isn't really why housing costs have gone crazy. Cost inputs have some effect, sure. But at the end of the day, the cost is set by what people are willing to pay, not what it costs to make

[blender]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That isn't really why housing costs have gone crazy. Cost inputs have some effect, sure. But at the end of the day, the cost is set by what people are willing to pay, not what it costs to make

What people are willing/able to pay is set by how cheap the financing is. Costs just fill the void because capitalism demands constant growth.

Rolling it back is extremely difficult for obvious reasons.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That isn't really why housing costs have gone crazy. Cost inputs have some effect, sure. But at the end of the day, the cost is set by what people are willing to pay, not what it costs to make

Yes, called massive demand.

People are driving up an already high price because they are willing to pay anything almost to get a house. Massive demand.

Which is what I said.

[Ironhorse]

But why aren’t we building more affordable starter homes? Everything I see now apparently has to have granite countertops and the word “luxury” in it.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Who is still using granite countertops??

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Who is still using granite countertops??

What’s the new go-to? Man made quartz is getting banned in Australia due to the silicosis I think, so you’d think that those days are numbered? And compared to wood/marble and similar materials, granite is where it’s at.

[photon]

Mine haven't gone anywhere so I'm still using them.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Slava

What’s the new go-to? Man made quartz is getting banned in Australia due to the silicosis I think, so you’d think that those days are numbered? And compared to wood/marble and similar materials, granite is where it’s at.

Engineered quartz is still the most common. I'm not up in the story dfrom Australia, but I believe it is simply a matter of bad/lack of proper protective gear for the underpaid workers cutting and polishing it. Like so many products, it is not inherently dangerous if you aren't turning it into dust and inhaling it.

Granite and marble are still part of the market place, and we are seeing granite with a recent resurgence.

[jayswin]

When did granite countertops go out of style?! This is news to me. I see them in many new homes and they typically look great.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Slava

What’s the new go-to? Man made quartz is getting banned in Australia due to the silicosis I think, so you’d think that those days are numbered? And compared to wood/marble and similar materials, granite is where it’s at.

Interesting; first I've heard that.
Quartz based stones are definitely the most common. There's also new products like Dekton I'm starting to see a lot.
Marble or travertine are in higher end homes.

Granite is still out there, I just found the post funny in the implications that it's the go to for new luxury homes. That would have been the case 15 years ago.

[calgarygeologist]

Soapstone is probably my favorite look for countertops although we installed a sandstone countertop and it looks awesome and is pretty unique.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by jayswin

When did granite countertops go out of style?! This is news to me. I see them in many new homes and they typically look great.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jayswin

When did granite countertops go out of style?! This is news to me. I see them in many new homes and they typically look great.

They just call them granite. Most of those tops are quartz.

To the earlier poster who asked why every home needs a quartz / granite, good question. Laminate tops are durable as well. Most times builder will put in quartz tops and cheap out on the cabinet hardware because 'Quartz Countertops' sells better.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Slava

What’s the new go-to? Man made quartz is getting banned in Australia due to the silicosis I think, so you’d think that those days are numbered? And compared to wood/marble and similar materials, granite is where it’s at.

Great… I did this work for a while and didn’t have the best leadership or support as a young impressionable worker. This pops up in my brain every once in a while like a ticking time bomb I think will go off.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

But why aren’t we building more affordable starter homes? Everything I see now apparently has to have granite countertops and the word “luxury” in it.

Much of the inner city was post-war cookie-cutter bungalows. That’s how you get affordable mass-housing (other than multi-plexes). Granite counter tops come when you can afford to rip one down and build an infill.

[timun]

I'm hanging on to the Arborite/Formica/etc countertops in my post-war inner-city bungalow until laminate countertops are back in style! Aaaaany day now!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Interesting; first I've heard that.
Quartz based stones are definitely the most common. There's also new products like Dekton I'm starting to see a lot.
Marble or travertine are in higher end homes.

Granite is still out there, I just found the post funny in the implications that it's the go to for new luxury homes. That would have been the case 15 years ago.

I guess a lot of people like marble, but to me that is questionable. It's so porous and I'd do granite before marble for sure.