Horrible day, Ukraine lost one of their brightest, his wife is a deputy on Kyiv city council. I've followed them since the first days of the invasion, she's a medic in the hospitalitiers and he was a commander.
I mean the whole war doesn't make sense to me, but what I really can't wrap my head around is where is the hatred coming from? What did the Ukrainians ever do to the Russians for Russian troops to have such hate in their hearts to commit murder and atrocities like this?
The rehabilitation period of Russia's image and reputation after this war will be longer than Germany's because of social media. Germany at least was a net contributor to world culture, manufacturing, reconciliation, etc after WWII. Russia is not a contributor of anything except dirty energy shrouded in corruption. Their reputation may never recover.
The 21st Century should have been the century of peace, progress and global unity. I despise these war mongers who have stolen that promise from us and younger generations alike.
A large part of my family is from that region and frankly its difficult to distinctly differentiate certain ethnicities.
I agree with you, it doesnt make sense. Russia invading Ukraine is like me invading my son's house trying to take over.
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In the age of social media, he has been immortalized within hours of this video being posted and hatred for russia ramped up significantly. Literally all of my UA contacts/friends/family have been posting and sharing this event. Whatever kind of "fear" the person recording expected to happen is having the completely opposite effect. Ukrainians far and wide know this fate awaits them if they lose their country so no chance in ####ing hell they will ever back down.
That is objectively bad ass.
All of it. His name. How he went down. Everything.
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I mean the whole war doesn't make sense to me, but what I really can't wrap my head around is where is the hatred coming from? What did the Ukrainians ever do to the Russians for Russian troops to have such hate in their hearts to commit murder and atrocities like this?
If you think this way and I'm not trying to be a dick, but your missing a key point.
The Russian Military has always used brutality and atrocities, its institutional. It comes from the Military leadership mind set that terror saps the strength of the enemy, and from actual poor dicipline in the Russian Military.
In WW2, while the Russians were tremendously brave and tough. They also used institutionalized brutality not only on enemy soldiers but on the civilian population. First of all because the Russian military mindset has aways been about generating fear.
In Afghanistan they continued that practice, same when they fought the Chechens. The Russians brutalized civilians and enemies alike.
Its the same methods here.
Sure we can ask about hatred by the Russians against the Ukraines. But we knew this kind of treatment of prisoners and the merciless bombing of civilians was going to happen. It would happen if the Russians lets say invaded Canada, or the mighty nation of Tongo (sorry I love saying that lately) Its part of their standard operating procedure.
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I don't think it helps that their military is full of conscripts who had no desire be there and were likely mentally unprepared or unqualified in the first place. Plus, you have the criminals who joined in order to pillage and rape, and the thrill killers who joined just so they can act on their impulses with impunity.
In places like Canada, and like most places in the West, the military tries to weed out people like that. Not that some don't slip through, but there is an active effort to avoid those types. In Russia, if you are a thrill killer, great, they want you to sign up.
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Seems the Americans are trying to put this now on someone else, but I still lean towards the US being the ones behind it...
German media says the same thing independently of Americans. They traced it down to a six person team that rented a yacht and pulled this off that included a couple of medics. Passports were all falsified of course from what the Germans were able to figure out it was the work of a "pro-Ukrainian" group. Evidence traces back to Ukraine.
I wouldn't really put this on Americans deflecting without more proof, Zelenskyy released his statement of denial really quick on this.
Kudos on the commentators throwing shade at the "Once respected journalist Seymour Hersch". Just one step above "disgraced".
German media says the same thing independently of Americans. They traced it down to a six person team that rented a yacht and pulled this off that included a couple of medics. Passports were all falsified of course from what the Germans were able to figure out it was the work of a "pro-Ukrainian" group. Evidence traces back to Ukraine.
I wouldn't really put this on Americans deflecting without more proof, Zelenskyy released his statement of denial really quick on this.
Kudos on the commentators throwing shade at the "Once respected journalist Seymour Hersch". Just one step above "disgraced".
I guess it's technically not lying since I assume the CIA is a "pro-Ukrainian Group"
Technically correct is the best type of correct, but in this case the boat involved was found to have traces of explosives, was searched by German Prosecutor's Office and rented by Ukrainian nationals based on what German investigative journalists figured out.
Its looks far more likely a Polish/Ukrainian unsanctioned civilian/rogue operation atm.
Quote:
Authorities probing the mysterious sabotage of the Nord Stream gas pipelines searched a vessel suspected of carrying explosives used in the blasts, German officials said Wednesday.
A vessel was searched from Jan. 18 to Jan. 20 this year “in connection with a suspicious ship rental,” the German Federal Prosecutor’s office said in a statement.
"There is the suspicion that the ship in question could have been used to transport explosive devices" that were used to blow up the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 pipelines in the Baltic Sea last September, the statement added.
German daily newspaper Die Zeit and public broadcasters ARD and SWR reported Tuesday that the boat used in the attack was based in Poland and rented by two Ukrainians.
Germany's defense minister urged caution Wednesday and suggested the blasts could have been a "false flag" attack to try and smear Ukraine.
“We have to make a clear distinction whether it was a Ukrainian group, whether it may have happened at Ukrainian orders, or a pro-Ukrainian group (acting) without knowledge of the government. But I am warning against jumping to conclusions,” Boris Pistorius said on the sidelines of a summit in Stockholm. He said earlier the likelihood was “equally high” that it could have been a “false flag operation staged to blame Ukraine.”
Ukrainian officials strongly denied any involvement.
Technically correct is the best type of correct, but in this case the boat involved was found to have traces of explosives, was searched by German Prosecutor's Office and rented by Ukrainian nationals based on what German investigative journalists figured out.
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Its looks far more likely a Polish/Ukrainian unsanctioned civilian/rogue operation atm.
Germany's defense minister urged caution Wednesday and suggested the blasts could have been a "false flag" attack to try and smear Ukraine.
“We have to make a clear distinction whether it was a Ukrainian group, whether it may have happened at Ukrainian orders, or a pro-Ukrainian group (acting) without knowledge of the government. But I am warning against jumping to conclusions,” Boris Pistorius said on the sidelines of a summit in Stockholm. He said earlier the likelihood was “equally high” that it could have been a “false flag operation staged to blame Ukraine.”
I have maintained since the start that is was the russian's doing and that's a hill I am willing to die on. Obviously if irrefutable proof comes out (which we still do not have) that it wasn't, I will reverse my stance. But this is what the russians do. False flags day and night. Some are pathetically pathetic. Some legit work to advance their agenda.
My additional tin foil hat conspiracy is that NATO/US are doing absolutely everything to avoid a direct conflict with russia, and throwing Ukraine under the bus is part of that. For example I am still suspicious of their claim that the missile that went astray in Poland was a UA defense missile and not a rogue russian one. That story has essentially been brushed under the rug and I believe Zelensky would have 100% admitted it was his army's, had he had irrefutable proof. The fact he hasn't come out and apologized/taken responsibility for it and hasn't mentioned it since, especially towards a solid ally like Poland, tells me there's more to it. Again, this is just my own personal armchair general tinfoil-hat-on theory. Perhaps he did and I missed it, which throw my entire thought out the window (pun intended).
I am not ready to absolve russia of responsibility in either event. Probably because l will never give them the benefit of a doubt ever again about anything. But it just seems all too easy to shuffle this on Ukraine's plate, tell Zelensky that as much as the war in his country sucks there are bigger world events at stake, and if he wants a seat at the EU/NATO table he's got to play nice.
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Wasn't the talk when it happened that very few countries even had the capabilities of pulling off a remote deep-sea detonation undetected? And now it's just a few random guys in a rented yacht (who didn't even bother cleaning it properly before returning it)?
I don't know, I'm pretty skeptical. This makes me think it's more likely that it was a Western intelligence operation. Who knows though, but I'm certainly not taking anything coming out at face value.
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I came across this video a couple of weeks ago that talk about the pipeline incident. I wasn't going to post it, but since the topic came up again, might as well. The video doesn't draw any conclusions, in fact, it kind of pokes holes on both sides.
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Wasn't the talk when it happened that very few countries even had the capabilities of pulling off a remote deep-sea detonation undetected? And now it's just a few random guys in a rented yacht (who didn't even bother cleaning it properly before returning it)?
I don't know, I'm pretty skeptical. This makes me think it's more likely that it was a Western intelligence operation. Who knows though, but I'm certainly not taking anything coming out at face value.
Personally, the part of the store that always seemed fishy to me was that only a few countries could pull this off. All you need is someone who can navigate a boat, some experienced deep sea divers, an explosives expert and enough money to procure a boat, explosives and the people you need to hire.
I don't think the location of the pipeline is any secret, nor do I think the sea over it is restricted at all (I could be wrong about this, I'm certainly not an expert). Assuming those things are true though, it doesn't sound like it would be hard to sabatoge.
Maybe I'm underestimating how much explosives you would need, or just how difficult the dive would be or something. I guess it's possible that this was extremely difficult, but on the surface it doesn't sound unreasonable for a small team of people to do it.
Meanwhile Seymour Hersh wrote up a conspiracy theorist's most outlandish dreams with planes using sonar to detonate underwater super secret bombs in a multi country international operation all to undermine Russia... when all you needed was a yacht with a few divers using a fake passport, allegedly.
As for this being a false flag invented by Russia should the yacht story be true, they are the same intelligence group who planted 3 copies of Sims 3 for a propaganda video, when the instructions were 3 SIM cards.
I'm skeptical of the story and not quite what I expected...but at this point this is what is being presented to us. I also don't see Ukraine benefiting much from it, and Russia's reaction was most certainly quite tepid.
I have maintained since the start that is was the russian's doing and that's a hill I am willing to die on. Obviously if irrefutable proof comes out (which we still do not have) that it wasn't, I will reverse my stance. But this is what the russians do. False flags day and night. Some are pathetically pathetic. Some legit work to advance their agenda.
My additional tin foil hat conspiracy is that NATO/US are doing absolutely everything to avoid a direct conflict with russia, and throwing Ukraine under the bus is part of that. For example I am still suspicious of their claim that the missile that went astray in Poland was a UA defense missile and not a rogue russian one. That story has essentially been brushed under the rug and I believe Zelensky would have 100% admitted it was his army's, had he had irrefutable proof. The fact he hasn't come out and apologized/taken responsibility for it and hasn't mentioned it since, especially towards a solid ally like Poland, tells me there's more to it. Again, this is just my own personal armchair general tinfoil-hat-on theory. Perhaps he did and I missed it, which throw my entire thought out the window (pun intended).
I am not ready to absolve russia of responsibility in either event. Probably because l will never give them the benefit of a doubt ever again about anything. But it just seems all too easy to shuffle this on Ukraine's plate, tell Zelensky that as much as the war in his country sucks there are bigger world events at stake, and if he wants a seat at the EU/NATO table he's got to play nice.
My opinion on it is the Americans did it simply because they have the most to gain, but I'll agree with you that it was the Russians before I believe for one second it was a 'random party of 6 that rented a yacht.'
Meanwhile Seymour Hersh wrote up a conspiracy theorist's most outlandish dreams with planes using sonar to detonate underwater super secret bombs in a multi country international operation all to undermine Russia... when all you needed was a yacht with a few divers using a fake passport, allegedly.
As for this being a false flag invented by Russia should the yacht story be true, they are the same intelligence group who planted 3 copies of Sims 3 for a propaganda video, when the instructions were 3 SIM cards.
I'm skeptical of the story and not quite what I expected...but at this point this is what is being presented to us. I also don't see Ukraine benefiting much from it, and Russia's reaction was most certainly quite tepid.
I personally doubt that the U.S., Sweden, or Denmark could be fooled by a false flag. The example above just shows how Russia is too stupid to pull anything off.
I don't know if the investigations by Denmark, Sweden, and Germany, once completed, will indicate anything conclusive, but I doubt they get tricked by Russia.
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Wasn't the talk when it happened that very few countries even had the capabilities of pulling off a remote deep-sea detonation undetected? And now it's just a few random guys in a rented yacht (who didn't even bother cleaning it properly before returning it)?
I don't know, I'm pretty skeptical. This makes me think it's more likely that it was a Western intelligence operation. Who knows though, but I'm certainly not taking anything coming out at face value.
Yup, exactly this. From the start of the event, the stories seem to shift in a manner that is advantageous to the US and the American-based order - oops, rules-based order. And similar to HuntingWhale saying he doesn't trust the Russians, I too don't trust the Russians, but I ALSO don't trust the Americans for the same reason - too many proven lies after the fact.
Personally, the part of the store that always seemed fishy to me was that only a few countries could pull this off. All you need is someone who can navigate a boat, some experienced deep sea divers, an explosives expert and enough money to procure a boat, explosives and the people you need to hire.
I don't think the location of the pipeline is any secret, nor do I think the sea over it is restricted at all (I could be wrong about this, I'm certainly not an expert). Assuming those things are true though, it doesn't sound like it would be hard to sabatoge.
Maybe I'm underestimating how much explosives you would need, or just how difficult the dive would be or something. I guess it's possible that this was extremely difficult, but on the surface it doesn't sound unreasonable for a small team of people to do it.
Yeah, I'm no expert on this kind of thing either. It's just that everything coming out about this theory is completely incongruous with what the same intelligence/military sources were saying about the operation in the months after it happened. Back then, it was thousands of pounds of explosives, with 3 different dive sites at over 100m deep, and then the operation having the capability to remotely detonate and do all this without being seen in a very heavily trafficked area. Now it's a few guys in a rented yacht who are too sloppy to clean it up before returning it?
Not to mention, this is all being leaked now for some reason. It certainly doesn't help Ukraine, so what's the motive here? There's an article in the Times claiming that NATO intelligence agencies knew within a week of it happening that it was this group that did it, and that they were keeping it under wraps to protect Ukraine. But now they release it?
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