For the coming season, Gaudreau + Tkachuk is close to Huberdeau + Weegar. Huberdeau + Weegar is certainly better than just Tkachuk. Overall we took a step back up front but improved our defence. On paper we're about as good as we were last season, just differently balanced. Cancel the fire sale!
However, Huberdeau + Weegar are on cheaper contracts, so we no longer need a cap dump. That's a win!
I don't think there's much point looking at them as rentals, because we're not likely to be deadline sellers, but I think H+W have more rental value than T as well.
The first and Schwindt are just gravy!
Here's the one rub I see though: prior to Tkachuk's trade request, I was looking at 2023 thinking that if we could get two of Tkachuk/Huberdeau/McKinnon, we'd bounce back into cup contention after this season's cap crunch. Well Tkachuk is off the table, and getting 2 out of 2 is tougher than 2 out of 3. How are we going to get value from our cap space? Well, maybe Weegar is the answer and I shouldn't have overlooked him. Or maybe we combine our cap space with some other assets and make a trade. Luckily, we just picked up some non-roster assets that could be used for that.
Trade looks good if you look at the names being exchanged but it all centers around Treliving getting both players signed. If he can't well it's that insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. As if the team is in or close to a playoff spot neither player is getting moved at the deadline. If he can it's one of the biggest wins the franchise has ever had.
Based on past rental costs for middling players (consider for example Jarnkrok cost a 2nd, 3rd and 5th), even if you can't sign either guy you'll get a 1st + 2nd + maybe a prospect for JH, and you'll fetch a 1st for weegar.
You end up with
MT ---> three 1st (two in the most talented draft in 8 years), a second and a B+ prospect.
Again, explain why we should take pause at all on this being a homerun.
Tree wouldn't not have learned from the gaudreau debacle. And I think it will be moot anyways as it sounds like extending Huby has a strong chance as he was in favour of being moved here and spends time here.
I don't understand the nay sayers, "what if Tre can't get them sign." "if Tre cannot sign them, this is a very bad trade."
Here's the counter, "what if Tre able to sign both of them to an extention." ?
Yes, I have no idea if Tre is able to accomplish that, at the same time, the nay sayers have no idea that Tre is going to be unable to sign them. Why look at this trade with a negative lenses?
I meant in terms of the totality of the team next season, the Flames effectively lost 219 points between both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, making the team considerably worse. Adding Huberdeau helps the cause, but the forward group is without a doubt, worse right now than last season having lost 2 x 100 points scorers and adding just one back.
I like that the Flames are different. Tkachuk and Gaudreau have been around awhile and never were able to provide the leadership to get them far in the playoffs. We will have a new leadership group to get that chance now.
I suspect Sutter will get the most out of Huberdeau and Weegar. I also expect Gaudreau and Tkachuk to both slide back somewhat without Sutter behind them next year.
I meant in terms of the totality of the team next season, the Flames effectively lost 219 points between both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, making the team considerably worse. Adding Huberdeau helps the cause, but the forward group is without a doubt, worse right now than last season having lost 2 x 100 points scorers and adding just one back.
Tkachuks points
48
49
77
61
43
104
100 point scorer?
Besides, Gaudreau leaving has nothing to do with this deal
tonight's deal is a massive win, its honestly laughable to suggest otherwise
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GFG
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Still not a fan of this trade after having a moment to process it, but there’s no doubt there’s a whole host of questions that need to be addressed:
1. So Tre has found his Johnny Gaudreau replacement, where will he find his Matthew Tkachuk or other RW replacement?
You don't, I think you get deep at C (by adding Kadri, Stastny, or someone else via trade) which is probably what Sutter prefers over having a top heavy lineup. He's always talked about how much he relies on centres to drive their lines on his teams. He had that foundation in LA with Kopitar-Richards/Carter-Stoll and made it work without superstar wingers (closest to that would be a declining Gaborik).
If we can add a #2C, Sutter's job becomes easier and all he needs to do is mix and match his wingers. Mangiapane, Toffoli, Coleman, Dube, Pelletier are all solid top 9 options in addition to Huberdeau. Maybe Phillips if he has a really good camp. Can sign someone like Milano or Rodrigues to give the coach more options if needed.
I don't understand the nay sayers, "what if Tre can't get them sign." "if Tre cannot sign them, this is a very bad trade."
Here's the counter, "what if Tre able to sign both of them to an extention." ?
Yes, I have no idea if Tre is able to accomplish that, at the same time, the nay sayers have no idea that Tre is going to be unable to sign them. Why look at this trade with a negative lenses?
I think it is absolutely fair to be concerned that we could lose these two players as free agents.
can someone try this trade in NHL 22' and see if it works.
The Flames offer isn't even half the value that the Florida offer is. It wouldn't let me do it though because the Flames would have had too many contracts and my Franchise is from after the deadline.
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Yea when/if they sign extensions it’ll turn into ‘well they’re old and the first isn’t a lottery and once they hit their mid 30’s they’ll fall off a cliff because Brouwer or Neal.’ This is such a great trade I’m literally speechless, I can’t understand from Florida’s angle but who cares! After a depressingly bad month and a bit this is as good a day for the flames as I can remember, massive roller coasters of emotions this off-season. Even for all the Treliving critics including myself, we have to admit the dude isn’t afraid to take mega swings. If he signs these guys it makes the Hamilton trade look mid tier which is insane.
Credit to both sides for putting this deal together. You just don't see trades like this very often. It's a unicorn type of trade for our unicorn player.
Yes, I agree it's fair to be concerned. But why stress out about something might or might not happen?
simply because it just happened the the organization's most important player since Iginla.
I know it's easy to say the team will do everything it can to avoid that scenario again, but I worry that they will prioritize making the playoffs above everything else.
