Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I think I'm just going to put this here, for those who think Treliving should be blamed for team trades:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...rental-player/

"If a trade happens without me hearing about it, I'll be looking for a new GM" -- Brian Burke

That isn't what he said. He said he can't just go and veto a trade because it's a partnership, and if he vetoes a trade then he might as well go find a new GM. Because it isn't working.

He's basically saying he trusts Treliving to make those decisions.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Depends where the pick falls...teams have given up firsts for far less. 5 or 6 teams gave up firsts for rentals at the deadline and a maximum of one of them will win the cup.

Hamonic is a still solid asset that the Flames control

If by a horrible stroke of bad luck its a top three pick well...BT will say FML

I don't think any trade (rental or otherwise) needs to result in a Cup to be successful.

Of the first round picks dealt on deadline day, all 4 were from teams solidly in a playoff position. So giving up a late first in exchange for an asset that will be part of one playoff run.

I guess we'll see how many playoff games Hamonic plays for the Flames but we know at most it will be two post season's worth under current deal. Meanwhile the price paid was more than a late first.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Depends where the pick falls...teams have given up firsts for far less. 5 or 6 teams gave up firsts for rentals at the deadline and a maximum of one of them will win the cup.

Hamonic is a still solid asset that the Flames control

If by a horrible stroke of bad luck its a top three pick well...BT will say FML

my issue with with not lottery protecting the pick is that the deal wasn't a gift by the NYI... a first and 2 seconds was probably a slight overpay based for Hamonic if anything, even if that pick was lottery protected.

it would be different if Calgary offered up the non-lottery protected pick in order to facilitate giving up less, say a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd.

the picks you are referencing are by teams that are in the race or loading up for a run... so picks in the 20s... not picks in the single digits or 11/12th...

just seems like a team that barely made the playoffs the year before, and was coming into the season without a starting goalie might want to have the option to lottery protect that 1st round pick...

and if NYI wouldn't budge, maybe he should have walked

[Kybb79]

Hamonic was regressing two years prior to the trade. This coming from New York fans. How did BT not know this?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Hamonic was regressing two years prior to the trade. This coming from New York fans. How did BT not know this?

Solid indictment. Very damning.

If he bases his decisions on fans' opinions *then* he deserves to be fired.

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Solid indictment. Very damning.

If he bases his decisions on fans' opinions *then* he deserves to be fired.

Injuries slowed him down according the New York fans.

[dino7c]

Lol how old are you 12? Who the #### cares what fans think. Fans (fanatics) always say a guy sucks after being traded. How are those fans liking their league worst goals against?

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol how old are you 12? Who the #### cares what fans think. Fans (fanatics) always say a guy sucks after being traded. How are those fans liking their league worst goals against?

Lol Mr. Know It All showed up. I believe those fans, Look at his play this season. He Sucks!!

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by dino7c

again he didn't just choose not to lottery protect it...very likely the Islanders had a similar deals out there and that is what he felt he had to do to make it happen

Besides, BT won't be getting fired anytime soon

That's a low bar for GM. Isn't he paid to negotiate best deals? It's almost if Chiarelli comes out and says "Listen, I asked Draisaitle to sign for $4M, but he demanded $8M, so I had to give him $8M". That does not cut it for an executive. Were Islanders that hell-bent on not protecting the pick? Were alleged " other deals " better than the Flames' offer with a protected pick, but all in sudden weaker when the pick is not protected? I am not buying it, I believe that Treliving just didn't go for it hard enough, as he thought the team would surely make playoffs.

Also why Treliving couldn't resign Stone before the trade, rather than after the trade, so with Hamilton, Stone and Anderson as RHD, he would negotiate for Hamonic from a position of even more strength.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If the pick ends up in the top 3 it because of a lottery ball.
That would be an idiotic reason to fire someone. If the ball spits out 12 he keeps his job but if it is 3 he gets fired?
Sorry that's dumb.

Sorry I completely disagree. He traded a 1st rounder and 2 2nds for a guy that was coming off a horrible year and was only expected to be the number 4 D. The Flames were a team that used a huge streak to sneak into a wildcard spot. 3 of the 4 previous years they drafted top 10 outside of one year when they clearly were an anomaly.

Look at it from that slant it doesn’t make a lot of sense to trade that many assets when the team has not really proven they are out of the rebuild. He could have minimized the risk by protect Big the pick. If that wasn’t an option he could have moved on to someone else or perhaps targeted the scoring winger we needed.

In my opinion he took a pretty big risk and if the result is worst case scenario I do think that should be given different consideration. Surely the optics change.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Lol Mr. Know It All showed up. I believe those fans, Look at his play this season. He Sucks!!

So it's confirmed, you are 12. I've actually liked Hamonic's play, especially the latter half of the season. I honestly don't have a problem with what we gave up to get him (although, I wish the pick was lottery protected). We have a lot of depth on defense, both on the team and prospects... I'd imagine Tre will be using one to get some scoring up front.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Lol Mr. Know It All showed up. I believe those fans, Look at his play this season. He Sucks!!

Proved my point.... Hamonic has been solid, his partner not so much. Islanders can't keep the puck out of their own net and are no better despite adding a ton of scoring. You really need to stop worrying about what biased fans think. Guy asked for a trade and eventually got moved... Islanders fans are like the dude who just got dumped that "didn't really like her anyway"

[kukkudo]

Tre is going to either trade a defensemen to recoup picks or for help upfront. It will be an interesting off season.

[rooster]

If I sit and have lunch and talk with Brad Treliving for 2 1/2 hours can I play for the Flames too? That is how Lazar got to the team according to John Shannon because Treliving was so impressed with him. Maybe that is why there are too many nice guys on this team.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by VilleN

So it's confirmed, you are 12. I've actually liked Hamonic's play, especially the latter half of the season. I honestly don't have a problem with what we gave up to get him (although, I wish the pick was lottery protected). We have a lot of depth on defense, both on the team and prospects... I'd imagine Tre will be using one to get some scoring up front.

I don't like what Tre gave up for him but people seriously need to stop hating on the player for that. Hamonic didn't make the deal, it's not his fault if it was an overpayment.

And yeah, he's been solid and is on a great contract. He's one of the last things to worry about with this team.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by rooster

If I sit and have lunch and talk with Brad Treliving for 2 1/2 hours can I play for the Flames too? That is how Lazar got to the team according to John Shannon because Treliving was so impressed with him. Maybe that is why there are too many nice guys on this team.

I think there's more to it than just the dinner. Probably the fact that Lazar has some decent upside, and is a known leader on and off the ice. And I would guess when Tre meets with players he's not evaluating how 'nice' they are. I'd guess he wants to see if they have character, if they would fit with the team chemistry etc.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Sorry I completely disagree. He traded a 1st rounder and 2 2nds for a guy that was coming off a horrible year and was only expected to be the number 4 D. The Flames were a team that used a huge streak to sneak into a wildcard spot. 3 of the 4 previous years they drafted top 10 outside of one year when they clearly were an anomaly.

Look at it from that slant it doesn’t make a lot of sense to trade that many assets when the team has not really proven they are out of the rebuild. He could have minimized the risk by protect Big the pick. If that wasn’t an option he could have moved on to someone else or perhaps targeted the scoring winger we needed.

In my opinion he took a pretty big risk and if the result is worst case scenario I do think that should be given different consideration. Surely the optics change.

I think the real issue at hand is: would the Flames have been any better or worse if Hamonic wasn't on the team this year? I personally do not think the drop off between he and Stone in that role would have amounted to more than a point or two, at the most.

For me, if you're trading away that kind of a haul, you better be damn sure you're getting an impact player in return. A guy that makes his presence known on the scoresheet more often than naught - Dougie fits that bill and then some. Hamonic, not even close.

Tre crapped the bed big time with the deal and it will actually cost this team for years to come. Pair this with the colossal failures that are the Lazar trade and Brouwer signing and you have a GM that should be getting a standing 10 count. Time to man up and make some hockey trades Brad. No more ##### footing around.

[bubbsy]

If the flames traded puck was a top5-10 probability to win the lottery, then there would have to be serious thought around removing the management team.

They will be just outside the playoffs, we can be pissed about it, but I don't see how one can be more upset at the gm if the pick ends up winning a lottery top pick. That's just pure extreme luck given the low probability

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I think the real issue at hand is: would the Flames have been any better or worse if Hamonic wasn't on the team this year? I personally do not think the drop off between he and Stone in that role would have amounted to more than a point or two, at the most.

For me, if you're trading away that kind of a haul, you better be damn sure you're getting an impact player in return. A guy that makes his presence known on the scoresheet more often than naught - Dougie fits that bill and then some. Hamonic, not even close.

Tre crapped the bed big time with the deal and it will actually cost this team for years to come. Pair this with the colossal failures that are the Lazar trade and Brouwer signing and you have a GM that should be getting a standing 10 count. Time to man up and make some hockey trades Brad. No more ##### footing around.

I agree with some of the above for sure. Personally I think Hamonic is a valuable piece as he is one of the only guys that will stand up for his teammates, is big, can skate, in his prime, with a good contract. I am still okay with the trade if the Flames pick lands out of the top 10. Not protecting thebpick considering this franchise was by no means established as a contender. I also really feel making the move for Hamonic completely handcuffed Tre in adding scoring this season without further gutting the cupboards.

Where I don’t agree is the Lazar trade being a colossal failure. Yes I would do that trade over again and keep the pick but moving a 2nd is the price of a rental so not an earth shattering loss. The Brouwer signing was bad but again not overly devestating. Less than 5 years and 5 million is livable. It went even a top 3 worst deal that summer (Ladd, Lucic, Eriksson, Backes)

To me the Lazar and Hamonic trades, the Brouwer signing and Gulutzan hire are reasons he should feel some heat but he should not be fired. Feaster got to blow the Regehr, Iginla, Bouwmeester, Tanguay trades before he was canned. Looking at Tre some picks for a in prime D, a 2nd for a former 1st rounder, and signing a guy who averaged 20+ goals and 40+ pts for 4 years he should be given more rope.

He needs to hire a new coach and make the playoffs with ease next year and the heat should be off. If the team misses again then he is likely done

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If the pick ends up in the top 3 it because of a lottery ball.
That would be an idiotic reason to fire someone. If the ball spits out 12 he keeps his job but if it is 3 he gets fired?
Sorry that's dumb.

Personally, unless someone much sharper then Treliving is found he should remain the GM for now. He has been an improvement on previous regimes.

That being said, Tre did put the team in a position to fail on that lottery pick, and its a results oriented business, so chances, attempts, percentages and so on mean nothing in the long run. In the obsession over analytics we still need to keep our eye on actual results. Like it or not if that pick ends up being a a real game changer of a player, then that would be a very bad result and qualify as a real disaster for the Flames franchise.

Its important for the Flames to finish well, if they go 0-9 from here on in that could end up being a very good chance at the 1st overall pick.