2016 NHL Draft

[dammage79]

I've been trying to figure out for a while if Nylander was feeding off of McLeod or vice versa. Still don't know but I like them both a bunch. But Nylander is legit. If the Flames end up 4-5, I'll be glad if they nab him. That's essentially 2 Gaudreau like playmakers for the top 6. I do wonder if Nylander can be converted to RW though. That would be awesome as well.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Very interesting comparison. And the answer definitely is Johnny Hockey.

I want to touch on something else though in another post above. People comparing size/skill vs BPA. Its true we are in division of big bodied players. We certainly need to get bigger everywhere.

BUT do our skill players need to be big ? Can we not have a roster of 6'3 215 players, some 6'5, 230, and have 3 skill players who arent huge?

Bennett
Gaudreau
2016 1st round pick

Gaudreau literally never gets touched - so i dont worry about him contributing to our size disadvantage. Sure he wont throw big checks but hes mastered how to be effective while being very undersized.

Bennett is no #####-cat. He takes a lickin and keeps on tickin. He thrives on that kind of game. Hes going to the dirty areas regardless of his size, and he will win a lot of battles based on speed, agility, tenacity and hockey IQ. So im not too concerned with him.

Say we take a small player in the top end of this draft who has off the charts skill. Can we not cover these players up with bigger bodies every where else? Or do we need to apply that get bigger philosophy to the top of the 1st round.

I'd like to know what people think.

Personally I get it - we need to be bigger. But I think its dangerous rating players higher or lower because they are smaller or bigger. These are kids. They can grow 2 inches and 20lbs, in fact many do after draft day. Not to mention you can get bigger in free agency, and via trade. The draft is serious business, you can pass on a super talented player who is 5'11 and will play in the all star game one day and take a career AHLer who is 6'3. It would make me sweat and lose sleep more than a lot of other things. More than anything but giving contracts out and making trades. After that i would be very wary of passing on people because they are normal sized human beings.

But also I'd hate to be a franchise/GM who had a scout telling them this undersized player has out of this world skill, and it will translate to the NHL - plus he could grow, but the GM goes with the less talented player, with the bigger frame - hoping instead that this larger player offensive talent / skating / whatever grows instead of drafting a small skill player and praying they grow.

I think its dangrous. Im sure some team in the NHL had a scout raving about johnny and a lot of other players who arent even as small as johnny, but slightly undersized like 5"10 185. or a 5'11 190 dman with all types of skill being skipped over for a 6'4 220 kid who has skating and passing issues but hits hard and has a big shot.. Both kids have played maybe 2 seasons in junior. Little guy has tons of points, tons of good reviews from scouts, big guy has a few big holes in his game but projects to be a 5-6 dman at the worst. If im a GM I take that smaller guy who is more skilled, not every time...but when it makes sense and hes very very skilled and you can see him being able to compete and play his game in the NHL, then you take him.

Not to the point you have a roster of 5'10 185 players going against the kings, but in the top of the 1st round - elite talent levels, future superstars and franchise players... i would certainly not ignore size, but i wouldnt look at it as much as others or i would certainly factor in potential and ceiling not just floor and ability to step in right away.

My point is we can carry 3 small offensively gifted forwards if they compete and carry their weight. It can actually be a good technique to snipe players falling for no reason other than size as the GMs go for safe big framed picks.

We cant do it too much - but its a great way to snag high level talent outside the top picks or top rated picks.

I think in 5 years people will look at what marner, gaudreau, nylander, drouin, etc do and will draft differently.

PS.. I want Tkatchuk over Nylander as well - for a variety of reasons...but its an interesting discussion

The danger is you have a few high skill small players then need to fill the roster with big plugs or force fit a Ferland onto the first line where he doesn't belong. You'd really really like to find a higher skill guy with size.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

James Mirtle @mirtle
Peter Chiarelli and Brad Treliving both expected at ACC tonight for Leafs-Sabres. Must be scouting in area?

Conroy is on his way to join Treliving most likely scouting OHL games this week.

The Leafs, Oilers and Flames are agreeing on the order of finish and how to divvy up the top three picks

[David Struch]

Let's remember the Leafs took Richardson instead of Sakic because they thought Joe was too small.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Chicago Blackhawks seem to be a decent NHL team built with next to no forwards that are much bigger than 6'2 and 205. Maybe they are an example to follow.

Yeah the Hawks are good but we don't want to try and emulate a weakness in their makeup. I'm not saying not to draft Alex Nylander but his size is a consideration. By the way he is a right shooting right wing, which is needed.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I've been trying to figure out for a while if Nylander was feeding off of McLeod or vice versa. Still don't know but I like them both a bunch. But Nylander is legit. If the Flames end up 4-5, I'll be glad if they nab him. That's essentially 2 Gaudreau like playmakers for the top 6. I do wonder if Nylander can be converted to RW though. That would be awesome as well.

Most profiles have him as a RW/LW. He is a right shot so I can't see why not.
Same with Laine if we draft him, he should be able to make the transition to RW easy enough.

[GoJetsGo]

Don't forget we have another smaller, extremely skilled winger in the system in Andrew Mangiapane who could push for a spot eventually. I really like what I've seen from him since we've drafted him but he's also on the small / slight side at 5'10, 170lbs

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Chicago Blackhawks seem to be a decent NHL team built with next to no forwards that are much bigger than 6'2 and 205. Maybe they are an example to follow.

Well, they are still considerably bigger than the Flames.

Toews is 6'2" - and though I wouldn't call him truculent, he plays hard on the puck and wins battles. Hossa is.. well.. a horse. Above average in height, but an absolute stud along the boards getting pucks. They also have rotated a bunch of guys on LW. One of the worst was Teravainen - flashy, highly skilled guy, but wasn't winning his fair share of puck battles so they rotated other guys in until finally trading for Ladd.

On the second line, they have two highly skilled small guys - Kane and Panarin. However, they stuck Anisimov (6'4") to balance out the line defensively and along the boards, while still being able to keep up offensively with the plays.

I will argue that Kane and Panarin really pace that team, but Toews, Hossa, Anisimov and now Ladd really help ensure that they don't get overrun by the bigger teams, and allow for better puck possession (at least talking about forwards - they also have extremely good D, and they are all mostly average - above average in size).

Tampa is a team that is kind of on the opposite side of the argument. Most of their skilled players are all 6' and under. However, they have a pretty big defensive core in Hedman (6'6"), Sustr (6'7"), Coburn (6'5") and they utilize Boyle (6'7") as a shut-down guy IIRC. They also play in the East, and don't have a 'big bad Bruins' team to contend with any longer. The west has Anaheim, St. Louis and LA who are all very big and talented, and if Winnipeg gets it together (which looking at their prospect pool, I would assume they probably will) they will be a force as they are even bigger (or were, last time I checked).

Going back to the Chicago example, you can see where Calgary is missing some players.

Bennett and Monahan are the only average-sized guys that have a lot of talent. Gaudreau has a lot of talent. Calgary needs more talent, period. That is first and foremost. However, they need guys that are able to win puck battles along the boards and in front of the net. Hossa, Toews, Anisimov and Ladd all do this well. Calgary? I think Bennett will (and is starting to), Monahan will get better, but that is about it for players that excel at that part of the game.

I am not advocating that the Flames absolutely must draft guys that are 6'5" and 220lbs, who love to hit and love to fight. For instance, I think Colborne is extremely under-appreciated because he does make the Flames harder to play against - you have to battle Colborne along the boards for puck-possession, and I am betting he becomes better at it with time. I will never expect (at this point) that Colborne will turn into a big hitter or fighter - he just isn't that kind of nasty. He just doesn't have the offensive skills to be included in the top 6, but he has more than enough offensive skill in the bottom 6.

That is the Flames' biggest problem (other than in net, actually). Not enough guys with top-6 upside organizationally that can win board battles for sustained pressure in the offensive zone. The only guy in Stockton that seems to maybe have that is Poirier (Shinkaruk and Klimchuk don't play a very physical game and/or just aren't big enough). Jankowski looks like he may be a more skilled Colborne, and I bet the Flames will be extremely happy to get him signed this season as he should (at least down the road as he gets stronger and more experienced) be able to do that for them in the 'middle 6'.

Tkachuk isn't a huge guy - just 6'1". He isn't going to add what people assume will be that 'truculence' of being a huge hitter, be a regular fighter, etc. He is just the type to come in, win a lot of one-on-one battles, yet keep up well with Gaudreau, Bennett and Monahan. Laine and Puljujarvi with their sheer size and talent will be very difficult players to move and strip the puck from in the corners and in front of the net.

If you look at LA, they don't really have a bunch of big hitters in their top 6. Sure, you can include Brown (is he even playing in the top 6 there any longer?), but they just have good size with skill. Come playoff time, they increase their physicality (as all teams do during the playoffs) and it makes it that much more difficult to play them. They have a very good combination of high IQ types with skill and size. Then they went and added Lucic in the off-season.

Also, as FDW pointed out, it is difficult to acquire those players.

Hudler has been a much more productive player in the league - including playoffs - than Ladd. Yet look at the price they went for. Big difference.

Big skilled guys get traded usually when they are having down seasons and they have big contracts - usually. Even Lucic was starting to be looked upon as a 'bad contract' until he got traded (and the cost was fairly high for someone considered to be a bit of risk).

[druetetective]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Some stats on Tkachuk

Primary points per game (goals + primary assists): 2nd in the OHL among draft eligible forwards
Even strength primary points per game: 7th in the OHL among draft eligible forwards

In total, he has 58 primary points and 41 secondary assists.

In contrast, his linemates have 85 (Marner) and 82 (Dvorak) primary points.

http://www.prospect-stats.com/

I watch a lot of Knights and think Dissentower would agree that Tkachuk is not the primary driver of offence on that line.
He does however have tremendous finishing ability. If we draft him It will be to have a elite complimentary piece for one of our guys who can create (Johnny,Bennett). Not a bad thing.

A player like Nylander creates more offence on his own.

Having said that I still take Tkachuk over Nylander. Dubois over both though for me.

[druetetective]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Brock Otten's Prediction of the OHL Coaches Poll. His prediction, the actual coaches poll comes out within a week or two. Still interesting as he watches a lot of OHL.

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca

Andrew Mangiapane tied for 3rd smartest player and 2nd in most dangerous in the goal area in the eastern conference.

Matt Tkachuk tied for 3rd smartest player and 2nd best playmaker in western conference.

Jakob Chychrun 2nd best skater, 2nd hardest shot, tied for 3rd best offensive defensemen, 2nd best defensive defenseman in the western conference.

Alex Nylander 3rd best shot, 2nd best stickhandler, 2nd best shootout shooter in the eastern conference.

Mikhail Sergachev tied for 3rd best shot, 1st hardest shot, 1st best offensive defensemen in the western conference.

Hmm I was not impressed with Chychruns shot at all. In particular the accuracy.

Anything Brock puts out though is a must read. This guy has a tremendous eye for talent. He should be employed by a pro hockey team seriously.

2014 he was ridiculed for saying Fabbri was a better prospect than MDC. No one agreed with him but he was adamant that Fabbri would turn out better.

Looks pretty good so far...

That's 1 example of many. I have a ton of respect for him and couldn't say enough good things.

[PeteMoss]

One thing about Chychrun is he did play a bit of forward last year when Sarnia wanted some offense, so he does have some of that Brent Burns type utility if you really wanted to do that.

[Poe969]

I'm really starting to like Chychrun more and more. I would still prefer Matthews and then one of the finns but after that Chychrun is becoming the clear cut #4 for me. It would be awesome if he could play D and RW too because one player would fill 2 needs (kinda)

[loob job]

I would like us to stop getting points please so we can have a top three pick. Thanks. Play hard and lose by a goal, not in OT though.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by loob job

I would like us to stop getting points please so we can have a top three pick. Thanks. Play hard and lose by a goal, not in OT though.

I really hope this is the last year we are picking high in the first round for the foreseeable future. I found myself slightly disappointed the flames tied the game last night only to lose in OT. They played a great game but I hope that point doesn't come back to cost them.

In 2014 another win would have landed the Flames Dal Colle over Bennett which would have been brutal

[Moneyhands23]

Just wondering if the draft lottery date has been set???

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Just wondering if the draft lottery date has been set???

No I don't think so. My guess would be April 16th (first Saturday after the end of the regular season, that's when they had it last year), but not sure.

[Toonage]

April 16th

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I really hope this is the last year we are picking high in the first round for the foreseeable future. I found myself slightly disappointed the flames tied the game last night only to lose in OT. They played a great game but I hope that point doesn't come back to cost them.

In 2014 another win would have landed the Flames Dal Colle over Bennett which would have been brutal

Man that would have been horrible! Saying that it's going to be different this year. The draft lotto is going to make me sick, I don't know if I'll even be able to watch them announce the order!

[Poe969]

I think April 16th or something.

The new oiler rule really doesn't guarantee anything though. I'm on the same page as a few posters here thinking that whatever can go wrong will when it comes to the lottery. The lowest a team can move is down 3 spots, so I want the Flames to come in 30th that way they'll get 4th overall at the lowest. I'm also betting the oilers win the lottery.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think April 16th or something.

The new oiler rule really doesn't guarantee anything though. I'm on the same page as a few posters here thinking that whatever can go wrong will when it comes to the lottery. The lowest a team can move is down 3 spots, so I want the Flames to come in 30th that way they'll get 4th overall at the lowest. I'm also betting the oilers win the lottery.

I really hope the nhl steps up and rigs the lotto so the oilers can't win.