I disagree. This team should trade every single prospect they have in order to make the playoffs this year.
Who cares if they lose the first series? They HAVEN'T MADE THE PLAYOFFS IN 20 YEARS!
Does anything else matter to this organization? I don't think so. The fact that you would rather extend our playoff-less streak another 5 years for the OFF CHANCE we MAY be better in the long run is disoncerting. Do you expect the Yankees or the Red Sox to be this 'average' for another 5 years? Doubtful.
As a team/city that can't attract prized free agents very often, if we have a chance, AA should blow his wad on doing every last thing possible to make it.
Look at the Royals last year and tell me that making the playoffs after decades doesn't do wonders for a franchise
So you want the guy who made the Reyes and Dickey trades to trade more futures for veterans? Sounds like a good way to turn a 20 year drought into a 30 year drought if you ask me.
So you want the guy who made the Reyes and Dickey trades to trade more futures for veterans? Sounds like a good way to turn a 20 year drought into a 30 year drought if you ask me.
I want the guy who got us Josh Donaldson (AL MVP) to make a deal that will get us into the playoffs
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The issue is Bautista and EE aren't getting any better and FA's after next season.
Either you go for it this year, or tear it down, keep JD, Martin and Travis (Pillar I guess too) as the core, and realize you are probably aiming for 2017 and hoping these pitchers can become a staff and use your salary flexability to sign someone.
I disagree. This team should trade every single prospect they have in order to make the playoffs this year.
Who cares if they lose the first series? They HAVEN'T MADE THE PLAYOFFS IN 20 YEARS!
Does anything else matter to this organization? I don't think so. The fact that you would rather extend our playoff-less streak another 5 years for the OFF CHANCE we MAY be better in the long run is disoncerting. Do you expect the Yankees or the Red Sox to be this 'average' for another 5 years? Doubtful.
As a team/city that can't attract prized free agents very often, if we have a chance, AA should blow his wad on doing every last thing possible to make it.
Look at the Royals last year and tell me that making the playoffs after decades doesn't do wonders for a franchise
If you only trade off Buehrle and Dickey only, you would get a couple of decent prospects (more for MB than RAD) and they are both going to walk this offseason anyway.
You'll have nearly 40 million off the books for just them and Romero's contract ending.
If you're a free agent pitcher and you see a team with by far the best offense in the league, and their only need being a good starting pitcher or two, the Jays instantly become attractive those players. Having 40 mil to burn, you could spend 20 on 2 different pitchers each and have the rest of the rotation being made up of Stroman, Norris, Sanchez, Hutchison etc. Then you're good to go next year.
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So you want the guy who made the Reyes and Dickey trades to trade more futures for veterans? Sounds like a good way to turn a 20 year drought into a 30 year drought if you ask me.
The Reyes trade we literally gave up nothing of value. Buerhle is the best player from that deal.
Sure Dickey has kind of sucked, but trading for the Cy Young winner with Bautista in his prime and short pitching for spects?
And really, neither player we have traded for Dickey is great.... YET..
you could spend 20 on 2 different pitchers each and have the rest of the rotation being made up of Stroman, Norris, Sanchez, Hutchison etc. Then you're good to go next year.
Do you think you are going to get a better replacement for Buehrle's numbers? Let's say you get a wash.
Then you hope you can get a 15 win FA pitcher. We aren't getting any big names.
So maybe we've improved 3-4 wins. Strolman another 3-5 probably. BUT Bautista, EE are a year older and are already declining. Reyes may gulp get worse.
Do we really think we get the same offense from Colabello and Pillar, etc?
We still have no bullpen, slightly better starters assuming we can find any, and the last year of EE and Bautista, who are a year older and presumebly less productive.
I want the guy who got us Josh Donaldson (AL MVP) to make a deal that will get us into the playoffs
Yeah, his good trade to bad trade ratio isn't so hot over the last few years. I don't trust him at all to be honest, I firmly believe he lucked out on Donaldson... no way either AA or Beane expected him to go supernova.
Who knows maybe he'll figure out a way to trade for a couple of good starters and 2-3 decent relievers to give this team a chance... but somehow I doubt it. More likely he does nothing or makes a minor trade or two. Other teams will demand a premium for pitching, AA picked the wrong position to be weak at (obviously I know it wasn't by design). I don't even think this team has enough good prospects to pull off the multiple trades that would be required anyway.
Basically, you're hoping AA gets lucky and pulls off multiple deals where he is the clear winner. I'm hoping ownership looks at the situation rationally. Agree to disagree.
The Reyes trade we literally gave up nothing of value. Buerhle is the best player from that deal.
Disagree, those were valuable assets at the time that could have been used to trade for actual GOOD baseball players. Bad trade. Dickey was magnitudes worse though, I agree. A 50,000 year old knuckleballer in the AL east/Rogers Center didn't perform up to insane expectations?... WHAT A SHOCKER!
Do you think you are going to get a better replacement for Buehrle's numbers? Let's say you get a wash.
Then you hope you can get a 15 win FA pitcher. We aren't getting any big names.
So maybe we've improved 3-4 wins. Strolman another 3-5 probably. BUT Bautista, EE are a year older and are already declining. Reyes may gulp get worse.
Do we really think we get the same offense from Colabello and Pillar, etc?
We still have no bullpen, slightly better starters assuming we can find any, and the last year of EE and Bautista, who are a year older and presumebly less productive.
Honestly, I am more of the opinion that they should completely tear down and try to build a bit within. The Jays remind me a bit of the tail end of the Iginla era Flames. Lots of good pieces, but not a good team. I don't know what the answer should be. I just look at a team like Houston and how they sucked for a while and were dreadful for a few years, got good players in the draft and are now a 1st place club with one of the best prospect bases to go with it.
Seeing the Flames success in their rebuild almost makes me wish the Jays would do something similar.
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Honestly, I am more of the opinion that they should completely tear down and try to build a bit within. The Jays remind me a bit of the tail end of the Iginla era Flames. Lots of good pieces, but not a good team. I don't know what the answer should be. I just look at a team like Houston and how they sucked for a while and were dreadful for a few years, got good players in the draft and are now a 1st place club with one of the best prospect bases to go with it.
Seeing the Flames success in their rebuild almost makes me wish the Jays would do something similar.
Problem is the Jays have been a bad team for 20 years, not sure they will ever grasp the term of a rebuild.
By signing Martin and trading pieces to get Donaldson.
There is no way, the Jays are going to rebuild... IMO
My fear is as per Tyler statement AA is going to move lots of prospects for a rental.
Disagree, those were valuable assets at the time that could have been used to trade for actual GOOD baseball players
Buerhle is a very good baseball player.
But everyone on the planet thought the Jays destroyed Miami in that trade.
In the end we didn't give up anything of value, but Miami shed a ton of salary.
Even the Dickey trade the players we gave up have basically done nothing in the majors.
What trade did AA really loose? (The two that jump to mind are the Yan Gomes and Napoli - If he made that one)
Saying we could have gotten better players doesn't mean he lost the trade, if the players he gave up don't amount to anything.
The issue is we can't put a team together. They hope we could hobble a bullpen and starting staff together, and outside of Buerhle every non rookie has been below expectations.
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But everyone on the planet thought the Jays destroyed Miami in that trade.
In the end we didn't give up anything of value, but Miami shed a ton of salary.
Even the Dickey trade the players we gave up have basically done nothing in the majors.
What trade did AA really loose? (The two that jump to mind are the Yan Gomes and Napoli - If he made that one)
Saying we could have gotten better players doesn't mean he lost the trade, if the players he gave up don't amount to anything.
The issue is we can't put a team together. They hope we could hobble a bullpen and starting staff together, and outside of Buerhle every non rookie has been below expectations.
Um, Noah Syndergaard is a stud. I'd like to have him in our lineup
I don't believe AA's going to just deal prospects for veterans, even given his under-the-ax status. He's shown he's willing to be patient for the right deal. While the shine has worn off the guy, I have no doubt he's working for the best interest of the team and not of himself, as he hasn't made that selfish deal yet. If he was that type of person, he'd have done it by now.
As for deals gone wrong, I think the only two deals that come to mind that arguably weren't easily foreseen as going-to-be bad deals, was the Dickey deal and the Napoli one. I think the Dickey one specifically had its detractors on here when it happened. The Reyes one in no way could have been foreseen to not work out (as it really didn't work out for anybody - just worse for the Jays considering the salary of those kept). Donaldson and Martin worked out really, really well. Lets face it, AA's a smart guy when it comes to deals. I'm now leaning more towards management being neither here nor there much like the Leafs or Raptors. The team is simply perennially aging because their stars peak at an older age, then completely fall off the map. If they're going to rebuild, it would be nice to see their guys around the same age developing. Guys like Encarnacion, Bautista, etc., etc., developed at such a late age that the window for winning with them is very slim.
