Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[zamler]

Originally Posted by T@T

Very disturbing the amount of people making excuses for this guy murdering 5 people, I don't care why he did it, I don't care what he was thinking when he slaughter these kids and ruined the lives of countless family's. He should grow old behind bars period.

I'm really disappointed in the number of people that don't agree with you I'm of the same opinion my capacity for caring why this guy murdered 5 people is near zero. Also this thread has been almost completely derailed.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I agree with everything you say...everything.

Also I too have been affected by the actions of another with severe mental issues and was the one who found her hanging at the end of a rope. an image that is seared into my conscious til my last breath.

That being said, when it comes to the bolded....what can be done exactly?

As has been mentioned in this very thread...if someone refuses treatment and are not declared dangerous to either themselves or others by someone else with authority and expertise to do so...there is absolutely nothing you or I can do about it from a legal standpoint.

The "cycle" really isn't a "cycle" at all except that these people continue to fall through the cracks at the expense of their personal liberties. I get it from both angles too....believe me.

It's why I fall on the side of "lock em up" more than the "rehab them" side of thngs. If they are jailed we are much much more certain they will be no threat to the public. Then I start to think "yeah but if they couldnt help what they were doing...."

I just think that the justice system, as flawed as it is and has been for 40 years now, needs to come up with a way to grab these people before they offend even if it is at the expense of their rights. If someone is batcrap nuts and talking violence and a myriad of other things that make no sense...then they need to be examined and declared safe or not.

I dunno....its a really difficult conundrum IMO.

I think there are a couple of obvious things that need to be done, the idiocy of closing down Dickensian 'Insane Asylems' and kicking the inmates onto the street that started in the 70's has to be addressed, most long term mental health facilities in BC are worse than jail, trust me I've spent a lot of time in both and I'd pick a jail over a hospital every time, so how we can expect the mentally ill or their families to cooperate with a system that can't house them humanely and safely?

My foster son (late teens) was housed in a room he shared with a couple of guys in their thirties in his hospital stay, sharing one bathroom, I've seen hospital dormentries of ten patients without even the flimsy curtains you get in emergency or the like where as we rarely double bunk in correctional facilities because the stress causes violent outbursts there and the union will call in health and safety.

The very least we can do is make sure each patient has their own room to live in when they are going through their own private hell.

A huge part of the problem is just funding, residential mental health is at the very back of the line when it comes to health care funding.

[DiracSpike]

Something I thought a lot about when this happened was how bad the guy who invited De Grood to the party must feel, what an awful situation for him. I don't want to blame him or the other guy that went for a walk with De Grood, but how much crazy incoherent paranoid statements have to be spewed before they figure "maybe this guy isn't right and we should just get him home." Hopefully a lesson to people to try and identify a bad situation and alleviate it somewhat.

Also if you think this thread has been derailed you're completely blinded by anger and missing the point.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by zamler

I'm really disappointed in the number of people that don't agree with you I'm of the same opinion my capacity for caring why this guy murdered 5 people is near zero. Also this thread has been almost completely derailed.

You don't care about motives or the reasoning behind things?

Even if I think he should be locked away for life, and regardless of what his mental state was maybe he should, you should want to know why someone did something, what their motivation was, what their mental state was.

Wallowing in willful ignorance is just ridiculous.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by T@T

Very disturbing the amount of people making excuses for this guy murdering 5 people, I don't care why he did it, I don't care what he was thinking when he slaughter these kids and ruined the lives of countless family's. He should grow old behind bars period.

Charles Manson was a bi-polar, paranoid schizophrenic, should he be out?

What you are looking for is revenge and not justice. Thankfully most people don't share your way of thinking.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Dion

What you are looking for is revenge and not justice. Thankfully most people don't share your way of thinking.

I expect you are right, but please explain what a just outcome (for all involved) looks like here.

[Major Happy]

Originally Posted by Dion

What you are looking for is revenge and not justice. Thankfully most people don't share your way of thinking.

Fair enough. It is very likely the kid was not in a proper straight of mind.

The question, imo, is how much leeway that will give him.

He killed 5 people, whether you want to call it murder or not is you opinion, but, imo he deserves a lengthy amount of time in contained control, whatever that be.

IMO, he should also be monitored for life if he ever does get released into the general public.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Dion

What you are looking for is revenge and not justice. Thankfully most people don't share your way of thinking.

Revenge would be the death penalty(which I am against) but sick in the head or not he needs to pay for this crime with his freedom. The family's should not have to worry that this guy gets out 5-10 years from now because his "meds" work or he's better now.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand

[Dion]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I expect you are right, but please explain what a just outcome (for all involved) looks like here.

If he's found not guilty due to his mental illness I suspect there may come a day where he gets released back into society like Vince Li was. If that happens he would have to be montired for the rest of his life to make sure he stays on his meds.

Problem with the above is a portion of the people here will argue there's a real possibility he might disappear, go off any meds he might be on and kill again.

[Major Happy]

Originally Posted by Dion

If he's found not guilty due to his mental illness I suspect there may come a day where he gets released back into society like Vince Li was. If that happens he would have to be montired for the rest of his life to make sure he stays on his meds.

Problem with the above is a portion of the people here will argue there's a real possibility he might disappear, go off any meds he might be on and kill again.

No offense, but I see that as a possibility for sure.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by T@T

Revenge would be the death penalty(which I am against) but sick in the head or not he needs to pay for this crime with his freedom. The family's should not have to worry that this guy gets out 5-10 years from now because his "meds" work or he's better now.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand

Revenge is the same as not allowing or wanting a person to be rehabilited where and if possible. You clearly want no part of that.

That my friend is what we understand about you.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Dion

Revenge is the same as not allowing or wanting a person to be rehabilited where and if possible. You clearly want no part of that.

That my friend is what we understand about you.

Doesn't matter what you or I want, but I suspect the victims family's would have a hard time with his release. why on earth should it ever be forgotten that he slaughtered 5 innocent young people. Tell you what, how about after he's rehabilitated leave it up to the family's of the murdered if he gets out! But let me guess when they say no friken way you'll just call it revenge instead of justice.

And please don't pretend to know or understand me because of things I say on a message board, it's funny, every-time I blast religion for it's stupidity I get hammered for weeks with drive-by comments from all the thumpers in here but yet not one has the balls to debate it.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by T@T

Revenge would be the death penalty(which I am against) but sick in the head or not he needs to pay for this crime with his freedom. The family's should not have to worry that this guy gets out 5-10 years from now because his "meds" work or he's better now.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand

So even if he did not be the mental capacity to understand his actions or the ability to stop them, he should be treated the same as someone who does?

If you believe this, then you must also think that the YCJA should be tossed out and anyone who commits a crime is treated the same, whether they are a child or an adult.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by T@T

....

And please don't pretend to know or understand me because of things I say on a message board, it's funny, every-time I blast religion for it's stupidity I get hammered for weeks with drive-by comments from all the thumpers in here but yet not one has the balls to debate it.

Shots fired!

[peter12]

I believe T&T has been taken to school by the "thumpers" many times. I predict the same outcome here.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

So even if he did not be the mental capacity to understand his actions or the ability to stop them, he should be treated the same as someone who does?

If you believe this, then you must also think that the YCJA should be tossed out and anyone who commits a crime is treated the same, whether they are a child or an adult.

I gotta say, I agree with T@T here. I'm all for studying DeGrood to understand why he did what he did. Why wouldn't we want to know? And maybe him being in a maximum security prison isn't the best place to do that. But I most certainly don't want him released to the public, even if he is on meds. The fact is, he HAS the capability to murder, whether it was ''him'' or not. That capability is inside him and he unleashed it. 5 people are dead and countless lives are ruined because of him (whatever ''him'' is). He should not be released. Rehabilitated or not, I feel the same way about Vin Li. And I feel the same way about the Medicine Hat girl.

And unleash the hounds on me if need be, but in the case of the YCJA, if an under-age person murders someone else, they should certainly be tried like an adult. Life is literally the most precious thing in this entire universe. When you have taken away someone's right to live, you should not be allowed back out. You are a menace to society.

Also lost in all of this are the victims. Same thing when a mass shooting occurs in the US. It's all about the accused. Why he did it. What happened. How could he do it. The accused's face plastered all over the front page. I'll bet most people following this case couldn't even name one of the victims. Likewise with any mass shooting.

Either way I agree with what was said earlier about there being justice for no one in the case, least of all the victims and their families.

[Stormageddon]

Would it not be different if the mental health system actually had more money to deal with these kinds of cases?

IMO he should be found criminally responsible because it was still something inside him that made him do it. But if that means he has to go to jail and not get the help he needs then obviously that can't happen. The problem is when he is sent away to be helped, only so much can be done with the resources available. Even if they want to, they can't keep him in there forever, the money just isn't there.

Once he reaches some sort of baseline he will be released?

Am I wrong here?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by T@T

Revenge would be the death penalty(which I am against) but sick in the head or not he needs to pay for this crime with his freedom. The family's should not have to worry that this guy gets out 5-10 years from now because his "meds" work or he's better now.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand

What should we do with child soldiers who commit war crimes?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Also lost in all of this are the victims. Same thing when a mass shooting occurs in the US. It's all about the accused. Why he did it. What happened. How could he do it. The accused's face plastered all over the front page. I'll bet most people following this case couldn't even name one of the victims. Likewise with any mass shooting.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think anonymity is exactly what the victims and their families would want and deserve. Private grief for the family, and dignity for the victims. What possible good would publicizing the private lives of the victims achieve?

But maybe we do live in a society today where being famous - even as a murderer - is considered preferable to being anonymous.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by T@T

Revenge would be the death penalty(which I am against) but sick in the head or not he needs to pay for this crime with his freedom. The family's should not have to worry that this guy gets out 5-10 years from now because his "meds" work or he's better now.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand

Again, I won't criticize as I too think this way sometimes. However, you are making some assumptions here.

1. He isn't remorseful for his actions
2. He did it for some personal satisfaction or gain
3. He values his freedom and will do anything to avoid losing it

If you are on the Yes side of those three then so be it. I myself have a hard time with that. I can't speak on #1, I think #2 is answered by his mental state, #3 I can't answer either but as I said before this guy may just hang himself the minute he is able to.

I get what you are saying but as a sane person who always has and (hopefully) will be I cannot judge this guy. I have to let the system doing its job and send him to the right spot and keep him there as long as it takes. All you can really hope for at this point.