Israel declares war on Hamas

[ThePrince]

[QUOTE=Manhattanboy;9270755]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/08/m...ntl/index.html

Wow, who could have seen this coming? Israel seizing an opportunity to illegally steal land? No one could have predicted this! But obviously it’s just Israel exercising their right to defend themselves. You need a buffer for your buffer, and if possible, buffers for the buffer to your buffer.[/iQUOTE]

The Syrian army abandoned its posts near the border with Israel that had been in place for decades to enforce the 1974 separation agreement. So Bibi ordered the IDF to take up those positions until new security arrangements are in place.

Why do you see the need to deliberately spread misinformation?

Yes, Israel has never taken these opportunities to permanently steal land. “We promise, we’ll be gone as soon new security arrangements are in place!”

Maybe if they didn’t take land so happily and opportunistically, people would feel differently.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Golan Heights was already a buffer zone. Israel is ripping up their agreement with Syria and now illegally occupying land that isn’t theirs because they apparently need a buffer for their buffer (or are just land grabbing colonizers). I know you are aware of this but still post whatever pro-murdering Zionist BS you can dream up. To you, Israel could take over the entire world and you would still cry that it’s because Israel needs to defend itself against enemies in the region.

The agreement is paper. The military on either side kept the zone safe. Israel offered land for peace, but guess who said no??? Your good buddy Assad, who is responsible for how many deaths? Talk about genocide, just look to Syria.

You have no idea what a Zionist is and you use it like a swear word, you just hate people. We get it.

Israel does need to defend itself, especially from regions that are unstable and have numerous bad actors in them. How you can defend Assad or these other groups while pointing fingers at Israel is such a gross joke. Do you also defend Russia invading Ukraine? Because those players are the same ones attacking Israel.

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Who says I was silent for the deaths in Syria? Feel free to share your contact info, I’ll make sure I involve you any time I speak out about human rights violations, whether they’re perpetrated by the murderers in the IDF or otherwise.

Yah, sure, human rights. Oppression of women, of minorities, of atheists, of jews, of anyone not following the rule of Islam, that is basically what you are defending. It is so gross. You ignore it all while the same belligerents continue moving through Africa with the same cycles of violence. Well guess what, Iran is losing and I am sure you are sad.

All of the instability is from Israel according to your world view, if only they could get rid of Israel then there would be peace all over the world!

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

The agreement is paper. The military on either side kept the zone safe. Israel offered land for peace, but guess who said no??? Your good buddy Assad, who is responsible for how many deaths? Talk about genocide, just look to Syria.

You have no idea what a Zionist is and you use it like a swear word, you just hate people. We get it.

Israel does need to defend itself, especially from regions that are unstable and have numerous bad actors in them. How you can defend Assad or these other groups while pointing fingers at Israel is such a gross joke. Do you also defend Russia invading Ukraine? Because those players are the same ones attacking Israel.



Yah, sure, human rights. Oppression of women, of minorities, of atheists, of jews, of anyone not following the rule of Islam, that is basically what you are defending. It is so gross. You ignore it all while the same belligerents continue moving through Africa with the same cycles of violence. Well guess what, Iran is losing and I am sure you are sad.

All of the instability is from Israel according to your world view, if only they could get rid of Israel then there would be peace all over the world!

I don’t know if I should laugh at how preposterous this post is, or continue to be disgusted at how someone like you exists just to propagate hate and war to serve your own interests.

PLEASE post somewhere where I have condoned ANY of the things Iran, Hamas, Russia, or anyone else has done like your disgusting posts try to paint. Just one post is all I’d like to see. You continue to ignore this because it doesn’t serve your murderous narrative, so I’ll keep pointing it out: criticizing the inhumane and genocidal actions of the Israeli government and the IDF does not mean anyone is condoning the terrible actions of Hamas, Russia, Assad’s regime, and the Iranian government.

I’ll throw this back on you, why have you been so silent about Syria? If you are so clearly on “the right side” on everything, why have you been silent while you chastise others for what you perceive as silence? I haven’t seen you post anything on the subjects, so you must support them, just like you’re making it seem I do, right???

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Yes, Israel has never taken these opportunities to permanently steal land. “We promise, we’ll be gone as soon new security arrangements are in place!”

Maybe if they didn’t take land so happily and opportunistically, people would feel differently.

With the most interesting and perhaps far reaching news to come out of Syria in years did you see fit to make any observations in the Syria thread that SureLoss just started in terms of the implications for the Middle East and more importantly the Syrian people? Nope. You came straight over here with ridiculous assertions that legitimate security actions by Israel are in fact moves towards permanently stealing Syrian territory beyond the Golan Heights. You’re not fooling anyone. For you it’s no Jews, no news.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

With the most interesting and perhaps far reaching news to come out of Syria in years did you see fit to make any observations in the Syria thread that SureLoss just started in terms of the implications for the Middle East and more importantly the Syrian people? Nope. You came straight over here with ridiculous assertions that legitimate security actions by Israel are in fact moves towards permanently stealing Syrian territory beyond the Golan Heights. You’re not fooling anyone. For you it’s no Jews, no news.

What was your post in that thread?

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

With the most interesting and perhaps far reaching news to come out of Syria in years did you see fit to make any observations in the Syria thread that SureLoss just started in terms of the implications for the Middle East and more importantly the Syrian people? Nope. You came straight over here with ridiculous assertions that legitimate security actions by Israel are in fact moves towards permanently stealing Syrian territory beyond the Golan Heights. You’re not fooling anyone. For you it’s no Jews, no news.

Because I, unlike you, have been subjected to what happens when a brutal dictator is overthrown in the Middle East. Or do you think you know more about the subject?

I’m not as arrogant as you are to purport that I have any idea what the implications for the Syrian people are. There does not appear to be a clear succession plan in place, and what I fear is that this creates a brutal power vacuum, the likes of which allowed ISIS to gain power in the region. For as much pain, suffering, and tragedy as the Syrian people have endured at the hands of a brutal dictator, I’m not sure how much more they can endure and I just hope that what comes next is better than what the last decades have been.

But what I do know is that the only narrative you have left to spin is the deflection away from Israel because you have nothing left to defend. That’s why you have nothing to add other than whataboutisms. The world has opened its eyes to the atrocities of Israel and the IDF and no amount of deflection is going to take away from it.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Because I, unlike you, have been subjected to what happens when a brutal dictator is overthrown in the Middle East. Or do you think you know more about the subject?

I’m not as arrogant as you are to purport that I have any idea what the implications for the Syrian people are. There does not appear to be a clear succession plan in place, and what I fear is that this creates a brutal power vacuum, the likes of which allowed ISIS to gain power in the region. For as much pain, suffering, and tragedy as the Syrian people have endured at the hands of a brutal dictator, I’m not sure how much more they can endure and I just hope that what comes next is better than what the last decades have been.

I appreciate your insight. Agreed.

And given how quickly events seem to have unfolded makes it all the more uncertain.

[Firebot]

Time to talk about this one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_I...asion_of_Syria

Spoiler!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rgets-in-syria

Seems like a pretty big deal.

An Israeli military official admitted on Tuesday that Israel had advanced beyond the buffer zone, saying its troops had seized “some other points”, but he denied reports of Israeli troops heading deeper into Syria.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Looch City

At least 20 killed in strike on 'humanitarian zone' in southern Gaza
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-m...rael-1.7402036



Silly Israel, mistaking humanitarian zone for Hamas zone.

Easy mistake, anyone could've made it as well. And they're not even human so who cares in the end?

Their mistake was they were too kind to the Palestinian refugees, thinking they were civilians, when in fact, all of them were Hamas.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/08/m...ntl/index.html

Wow, who could have seen this coming? Israel seizing an opportunity to illegally steal land? No one could have predicted this! But obviously it’s just Israel exercising their right to defend themselves. You need a buffer for your buffer, and if possible, buffers for the buffer to your buffer.

Wait, aren't the US and the west against illegal seizures of land and annexing of territories that belong to a sovereign nation? Maybe they'll say something tomorrow and condemn this.

[flylock shox]

Not sure if this has been previously posted but this article describes a database of IDF war crimes maintained by a (brave) Israeli historian.

A similar article appears in Haaretz but is paywalled.

Article

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Not sure if this has been previously posted but this article describes a database of IDF war crimes maintained by a (brave) Israeli historian.

A similar article appears in Haaretz but is paywalled.

Article

Don't worry, they all have explanations.

[activeStick]

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant arrived in the US yesterday despite ICC's arrest warrant on him. Would be funny if his plane has to stop in Canada on his way back and Canadian RCMP arrest him.

[Doctorfever]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80vdy9ex9xo

Hopefully some good news coming soon…. Sounds like a ceasefire agreement is close.

After months of deadlock, there are new signs that Israel and Hamas could be moving closer to a Gaza ceasefire and hostage release deal.
A senior Palestinian official involved in the indirect negotiations told the BBC that talks were in a "decisive and final phase".
Israel's defence minister, Israel Katz, has also said an agreement is closer than ever.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80vdy9ex9xo

Hopefully some good news coming soon…. Sounds like a ceasefire agreement is close.

Assad's fall is the end of any hope for Gaza and Palestine really, Hamas is pretty much toast

[Language]

Watched two documentaries the other day that I think people may find interesting.

The Gatekeepers (2012)
Interviews with six prior heads of Shin Bet, about the evolution of the organization and their tactics. Interestingly, their conclusions at the end of the film may come as surprising.
https://archive.org/details/TheGatekeeper


The Human Factor (2019)
In depth look at the attempted peace process that Clinton tried to broker. Shows many things that I forgot or wasn’t aware of, including Netanyahu and Arafat taking part in the summits together. Truly was the closest that peace was ever achieved.
https://m4uhd.to/watch-ioy7co-the-hu...ctor-2019.html

Interesting, and sobering films, especially when you watch them with the insight of 10/7 happening years later. So many missed opportunities on both sides.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blankall]

If you can find it PBS did a really great documentary on the Taba Summit a couple of years after it happened.

[PepsiFree]

As this week marks another hospital raid, putting the last hospital accessible by the north out of commission, as well as the killing of 5 journalists, I thought these two links from earlier this month were worth sharing. Apologies if they’ve already been shared:

Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza

Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip, the organization said in a landmark new report published today.

…

“Our research reveals that, for months, Israel has persisted in committing genocidal acts, fully aware of the irreparable harm it was inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza. It continued to do so in defiance of countless warnings about the catastrophic humanitarian situation and of legally binding decisions from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordering Israel to take immediate measures to enable the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza,” said Agnès Callamard. 

“Israel has repeatedly argued that its actions in Gaza are lawful and can be justified by its military goal to eradicate Hamas. But genocidal intent can co-exist alongside military goals and does not need to be Israel’s sole intent.”

Amnesty International examined Israel’s acts in Gaza closely and in their totality, taking into account their recurrence and simultaneous occurrence, and both their immediate impact and their cumulative and mutually reinforcing consequences. The organization considered the scale and severity of the casualties and destruction over time. It also analysed public statements by officials, finding that prohibited acts were often announced or called for in the first place by high-level officials in charge of the war efforts.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...nians-in-gaza/

Why these Israeli men volunteered to fight - but now refuse to return to Gaza

…

Even if there is not widespread public support for those refusing to serve because of reasons of conscience, there is evidence that some of the key demands of those who signed the refusal letter are shared by a growing number of Israelis.

A recent opinion poll by the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) indicated that among Jewish Israelis 45% wanted the war to end - with a ceasefire to bring the hostages home - against 43% who wanted the IDF to fight on to destroy Hamas.

Significantly, the IDI poll also suggests that the sense of solidarity which marked the opening days of the war as the country reeled from the trauma of 7 October has been overtaken by the revival of political divisions: only 26% of Israelis believe there is now a sense of togetherness, while 44% say there is not.

At least part of this has to do with a feeling often expressed, especially among those on the left of the political divide, that the war is being prolonged at the behest of far-right parties whose support Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu needs to remain in power.

Even the former Defence Minister, Yoav Gallant, a member of Netanhayu’s Likud Party, dismissed by the prime minister last month, cited the failure to return the hostages as one of the key disagreements with his boss.

“There is and will not be any atonement for abandoning the captives,” he said. “It will be a mark of Cain on the forehead of Israeli society and those leading this mistaken path.”

…


One soldier, who asked to remain anonymous, was at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion airport when news started coming in about the Hamas attacks. He recalls feeling shock at first. Then a ringing sensation in his ears. “I remember the drive home… The radio’s on and people [are] calling in, saying: ‘My dad was just kidnapped, help me. No-one's helping me.’ It was truly a living nightmare.”

This was the moment the IDF was made for, he felt. It wasn’t like making house raids in the occupied West Bank or chasing stone-throwing youths. “Probably for the first time I felt like I enlisted in true self-defence.”

But his view transformed as the war progressed. “I guess I no longer felt I could honestly say that this campaign was centered around securing the lives of Israelis.”

He says this was based on what he saw and heard among comrades. “I try to have empathy and say, ‘This is what happens to people who are torn apart by war…’ but it was hard to overlook how wide this discourse was.”

He recalls comrades boasting, even to their commanders, about beating “helpless Palestinians”. And he heard more chilling conversations. “People would pretty calmly talk about cases of abuse or even murder, as if it was a technicality, or with real serenity. That obviously shocked me.”

The soldier also says he witnessed prisoners being blindfolded and not allowed to move “for basically their entire stay… and given amounts of food that were shocking”.

When his first tour of duty ended he vowed not to return.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yx56ep165o.amp

[Looch City]

Say it with me folks: Terrorist regime.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Say it with me folks: Terrorist regime.

That can't be true, because the US doesn't support terrorists. Facts!