American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If I'm a person working at Target.. I don't want to be harassed every day so the company can sell shirts.

Selling shirts is about the lowest level of advocacy you can do. I'll draw the line at something more important.

Budweiser I'd put that on a different level since there aren't a bunch of low wage workers taking the brunt of the protest.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661148228568641537



You just empower these people to do more. Stand up to this bull####.

[JohnnyB]

I'm sure there is lots of space for research and thoughtful debate around working out best healthcare practices, parenting, and educational supports and whatnot for kids growing up trans, but the world is just a more colorful and interesting place with more different kinds of people in it. Trans people just getting to openly be who they are is the kind of thing that makes this a cooler world to live in.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Matata

People are upset that these companies are promoting trans life styles (with that pesky 41% suicide rate) to children. The articles and headlines have a funny way of dancing around that little detail. Parents are willing to die on that hill (so their kids don't) and it appears so are progressives. The number of kids identifying as trans is going up exponentially (I wonder why?), but getting that suicide rate to budge is proving to be extraordinarily difficult. They'll probably figure it out someday, right? It's only someone else's kid.

I think trans issues are still relatively new to many of us. I'm sure people in the LGBTQ+ world have been more familiar with them for a longer period of time and likely know more people this topic directly impacts.

I'm 46. I remember in my mid-20s (like, the year 2000) trans people were still "freaks" on Jerry Springer and other low-quality shows and they were called cross-dressers. It's just recently (say within the past few years) a lot of us have come to understand and empathize more with trans issues.

I'm still very unclear on how many people are trans. What percentage of the population are trans? Do we know? I sense that trans issues are totally overblown by the right-wing and have forced liberals/progressives into sort of a defensive posture and it's hurting the larger - and more important - progressive agendas. Does that mean we should abandon trans-rights issues? Not really, but I think we need to stop taking the bait and I also think we need to give into some low-hanging fruit to disarm the right wingers on this.

One thing we should easily give into is no MtoF trans athletes allowed to compete in any female-only sports at any level. Every time they bring that up, just agree with them that it's preposterous because they're absolutely correct on that one issue. Of course it's an unfair advantage and the left completely supports the right's position so it is all of our position. Done. Let's put that one to rest instead of trying to defend the indefensible.

As far as other trans rights, let's reframe it to human rights. We want equality, right? Okay, the right is whipping up their base and pulling in undecideds with this issue. Again, how many people does it impact? I just don't think it's that many. Surely some lost souls are finding their place as trans whether they're trans or not. Actual trans number? Don't know, but it's not super relevant IMO. A trans person should have the same rights anybody else has, so let's talk human rights.

It's a human right to be able to dress and present yourself as you please. Should a "boy" be able to dress as a "girl" for prom? Sure, why not? Doesn't hurt anybody and none of your business. Take back the word freedom. We believe in the freedom to present yourself as you want. Quit trying to take away our freedoms. America is the land of the free. We don't always like everyone's choices, but we defend the freedom to make those choices.

It should never be about trans rights. It's about equal rights. It should never be about giving into bans are edicts on how one should be. It's about allowing freedom.

The best defense is a good offence. The left has to quit defending everything. Attack those taking away freedoms and advocating for anything less than equal human rights. Trans people are humans and they are deserving of freedoms. Put them under that umbrella.

The right-wing has found a great wedge issue and it is absolutely peeling off otherwise progressives into the right-wing camp over an issue that, frankly, doesn't affect enough people to expend all of our political capital specifically defending. Let's defend all people - including trans - under one umbrella. We're not going to win this one at this point in time in this culture, so it needs to be fought a different way or too many issues of equal or greater import are going to suffer when they don't need to.

Open to hearing other thoughts on this, though. Haven't written the above in stone in my mind or anything.

[GirlySports]

Should a "boy" be able to dress as a "girl" for prom? Sure, why not? Now let's switch it up. Should a "boy" be able to dress as a "girl" at work. Now you're representing a brand. At what point does a "boy" become a "girl"? Transition takes years.

The problem is social norms and control. They are just entrenched and higher ups don't want to lose control. The conservative slippery slope. Like look at your own work dress code. Forget trans issues for second, people can't get their head around even tattoos and piercings in the workplace. Then there's the gender 'norms'. As a girl, I can wear almost anything to the workplace. I can wear a suit, a dress, blouse and skirt, high heels. I can probably even get away with shirt, shorts and sandals, if I just stay in my office.

Guys can't even wear shorts or sneakers to work. They would probably be sent home at the door. Wasn't there an issue a guy couldn't even dye his hair pink for breast cancer? So when someone who's trans (guy to girl) dress even a little different, it's a big issue. Why? It should not be.

Then there's the whole family and honor thing. Having someone who's gay (maybe not so much anymore) or trans is an embarrassment to the family. It totally ruins everything at the dinner table. These are just things people can't get heads around because social norms have been entrenched in our society.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Should a "boy" be able to dress as a "girl" for prom? Sure, why not? Now let's switch it up. Should a "boy" be able to dress as a "girl" at work. Now you're representing a brand. At what point does a "boy" become a "girl"? Transition takes years.

The problem is social norms and control. They are just entrenched and higher ups don't want to lose control. The conservative slippery slope. Like look at your own work dress code. Forget trans issues for second, people can't get their head around even tattoos and piercings in the workplace. Then there's the gender 'norms'. As a girl, I can wear almost anything to the workplace. I can wear a suit, a dress, blouse and skirt, high heels. I can probably even get away with shirt, shorts and sandals, if I just stay in my office.

Guys can't even wear shorts or sneakers to work. They would probably be sent home at the door. Wasn't there an issue a guy couldn't even dye his hair pink for breast cancer? So when someone who's trans (guy to girl) dress even a little different, it's a big issue. Why? It should not be.

Then there's the whole family and honor thing. Having someone who's gay (maybe not so much anymore) or trans is an embarrassment to the family. It totally ruins everything at the dinner table. These are just things people can't get heads around because social norms have been entrenched in our society.

As far as dress codes come in, I'm back to equality. The dress code for a company applies to all equally. You were born as a man, but prefer to present as a woman? Okay, here's the female dress code. It's not a trans issue; it's an equal-rights issue.

We're not carrying a trans banner and shoving trans down your throats. Why are you so fixated on trans people? That's weird. We're over here promoting freedom and equality.

For families? I don't think a trans banner waving in front of city hall or a trans t-shirt at Target is going to influence Joe Six Pack at the dinner table one way or another, so fuuck 'im. Let's fight what's fightable for now. Progress is on a decades-long timeline for this stuff. We have to quit pretending this is a battle that can be won in week, months or even a couple years. Play the longer game and push our agenda forward bit by bit. It's the only way.

[PeteMoss]

We all know how it goes long term. When most of us were young gay marriage was a big fight and inter-racial relationships were a big thing - now they are just basically accepted here. This will go the same way as it should.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

We all know how it goes long term. When most of us were young gay marriage was a big fight and inter-racial relationships were a big thing - now they are just basically accepted here. This will go the same way as it should.

Dude, right wingers fought that stuff, too. You don't think they learned anything from the "battle" they lost? They have changed tactics and are going waaay harder this time. We need a different approach, too. Right now we're totally playing into their hands and losing as a result.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Should a "boy" be able to dress as a "girl" for prom? Sure, why not? Now let's switch it up. Should a "boy" be able to dress as a "girl" at work. Now you're representing a brand. At what point does a "boy" become a "girl"? Transition takes years.

The problem is social norms and control. They are just entrenched and higher ups don't want to lose control. The conservative slippery slope. Like look at your own work dress code. Forget trans issues for second, people can't get their head around even tattoos and piercings in the workplace. Then there's the gender 'norms'. As a girl, I can wear almost anything to the workplace. I can wear a suit, a dress, blouse and skirt, high heels. I can probably even get away with shirt, shorts and sandals, if I just stay in my office.

Guys can't even wear shorts or sneakers to work. They would probably be sent home at the door. Wasn't there an issue a guy couldn't even dye his hair pink for breast cancer? So when someone who's trans (guy to girl) dress even a little different, it's a big issue. Why? It should not be.

Then there's the whole family and honor thing. Having someone who's gay (maybe not so much anymore) or trans is an embarrassment to the family. It totally ruins everything at the dinner table. These are just things people can't get heads around because social norms have been entrenched in our society.

I think this is not really a problem. It's not "higher ups" it's that people are able to be manipulated by hateful bigots and use them as tools.


The family honor thing is only there because, again hateful bigots has placed it there. If everyone accepted their family members being different, it wouldn't be an issue, and the one bigoted uncle would be asked to knock it off or leave. You can't give these people room to act or air to breath, because they'll use it all for hate.

[PsYcNeT]

The problem is, this is all just going according to plan

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661430440492777472

[aaronck]

DeSantis launched his campaign for president yesterday- was a co production with Elon and it was plagued with audio and other technical issues.

Also released this super weird video that doesn't say much but featured Elon a bunch for some reason

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661517438272385025

[CroFlames]

It annoys me so much how Elon acts like he invented the flame thrower and his stans fall for it.

Allied troops were bbq'ing Nazis and Imperial Japanese with flame throwers before Elon was even a twinkle in his pedophile dad's eye.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by aaronck

Also released this super weird video that doesn't say much but featured Elon a bunch for some reason

Elon for VP and Twitter becomes their election megaphone? 🫣

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If I'm a person working at Target.. I don't want to be harassed every day so the company can sell shirts.

Selling shirts is about the lowest level of advocacy you can do. I'll draw the line at something more important.

Budweiser I'd put that on a different level since there aren't a bunch of low wage workers taking the brunt of the protest.

Yeah, if I'm making $7.25 an hour, I don't give a f--k about your advocacy if I'm literally having my life and safety threatened by assh-les.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yeah, if I'm making $7.25 an hour, I don't give a f--k about your advocacy if I'm literally having my life and safety threatened by assh-les.

Is it so hard to have a policy that you say "I am notifying you that you must leave the store immediately, or I will contact the police to charge you with trespassing" then they walk away, and call police. Or have the manager do it. You don't have to engage with them.

[TorqueDog]

This isn't dealing with the obnoxious assweasels hanging out on the corner of Elbow Drive and 4th with signs being annoying, America's bigots are a special (usually aggressive) breed and quite frankly if I was in such a position myself, I would tell you to piss up a rope and come do it yourself if you care so much before I put myself in harm's way.

[puffnstuff]

Stewart Rhodes sentenced to 18 years for seditious conspiracy.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Stewart Rhodes sentenced to 18 years for seditious conspiracy.

Real shame there, real shame.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65651998

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661148228568641537



you just empower these people to do more. Stand up to this bull####.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661429622506921984

ffs

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Matata

People are upset that these companies are promoting trans life styles (with that pesky 41% suicide rate) to children. The articles and headlines have a funny way of dancing around that little detail. Parents are willing to die on that hill (so their kids don't) and it appears so are progressives. The number of kids identifying as trans is going up exponentially (I wonder why?), but getting that suicide rate to budge is proving to be extraordinarily difficult. They'll probably figure it out someday, right? It's only someone else's kid.

The number of people who identify as left-handed has also gone up exponentially in the last century. Why do you think that is?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The number of people who identify as left-handed has also gone up exponentially in the last century. Why do you think that is?

Clearly a lack of leftie bashing. I vote we start it up again. Grab your hammers!