Occupy Calgary/Do Not Merge

[Ozy_Flame]

That's cool, I just see it in a different light. The fact that his stunt has political undertones clouds the message for me. Kinda like when the car salesman says how happy he is you "found the right car" but is really just happy about the almighty dollar in his pocket.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's cool, I just see it in a different light. The fact that his stunt has political undertones clouds the message for me. Kinda like when the car salesman says how happy he is you "found the right car" but is really just happy about the almighty dollar in his pocket.

And that's a fair enough position, while I agree with Cory's message, there is part of me that struggles with the optics of him in his pick up truck. The lefty in me has to come to terms with the fact that maybe I have more in common with the redneck/loud mouth Albertan than I'd realized before.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's cool, I just see it in a different light. The fact that his stunt has political undertones clouds the message for me. Kinda like when the car salesman says how happy he is you "found the right car" but is really just happy about the almighty dollar in his pocket.

I doubt though that the public at large is thinking about the political undertones - they will simply see a guy proving that the city appears to have a double standard at work here.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I doubt though that the public at large is thinking about the political undertones - they will simply see a guy proving that the city appears to have a double standard at work here.

Point taken.

[CaptainCrunch]

The only thing that Cory truly did wrong is that he should have taken it to the next step and refused to produce ID like the Occupy Calgary people are threatening to do.

Of course, I don't know if he wants to go to jail, soft hands and all.

[Sliver]

His message may have been clear, but that doesn't mean it was a good message. It highlights a greater lack of understanding of the complexities of the occupy movement. That he and First Lady have tunnel vision on the breaking of the bylaws and that they are so vocal about it only adds fuel to the fire they are pretending to want to put out.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The only thing that Cory truly did wrong is that he should have taken it to the next step and refused to produce ID like the Occupy Calgary people are threatening to do.

Of course, I don't know if he wants to go to jail, soft hands and all.

As a politician, I think that would be going too far, imo. Only because (maybe one of the resident cops can confirm) I believe they could actually haul him down to jail for refusing to provide ID, if they really wanted to. I could be wrong, though.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

As a politician, I think that would be going too far, imo. Only because (maybe one of the resident cops can confirm) I believe they could actually haul him down to jail for refusing to provide ID, if they really wanted to. I could be wrong, though.

So the question is, that the Occupyer's have threatened to not produce ID in the face of bylaw tickets. Do we start hauling them to jail?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So the question is, that the Occupyer's have threatened to not produce ID in the face of bylaw tickets. Do we start hauling them to jail?

Well, it certainly is an option. But then it goes back to them getting what they want; Images/video of protesters being thrown around, hauled into police cars etc.

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by Sliver

His message may have been clear, but that doesn't mean it was a good message. It highlights a greater lack of understanding of the complexities of the occupy movement. That he and First Lady have tunnel vision on the breaking of the bylaws and that they are so vocal about it only adds fuel to the fire they are pretending to want to put out.

As oppose to no message and refusal to speak to the media?

The occupy movement IN Calgary has a greater lack of understanding of protesting.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Well, it certainly is an option. But then it goes back to them getting what they want; Images/video of protesters being thrown around, hauled into police cars etc.

so then your back to the selective bylaw/law enforcement thing again.

Maybe Cory should have resisted and gotten hauled off to jail then.

When did it become all right for enforcement of law to be abrogated by the media?

I think Calgary cops should go in and very professionally start enforcing bylaws and arresting people that refuse to produce ID, I'm willing to bet that some of these occupyers will try to provoke the police.

But that picture of excrement on the ground is just really resonating with me right now.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by flameswin

As a politician, I think that would be going too far, imo. Only because (maybe one of the resident cops can confirm) I believe they could actually haul him down to jail for refusing to provide ID, if they really wanted to. I could be wrong, though.

Failure to identify yourself to a cop when he's lawfully placed and is enforcing any sort of bylaw/provincial law/criminal would be a criminal code charge of obstruction. They'd be brought to jail until they could confirm there identity through fingerprints, etc.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Sliver

His message may have been clear, but that doesn't mean it was a good message. It highlights a greater lack of understanding of the complexities of the occupy movement. That he and First Lady have tunnel vision on the breaking of the bylaws and that they are so vocal about it only adds fuel to the fire they are pretending to want to put out.

Just to twist that around, Occupy Calgary's message hasn't been clear, does that mean it's a bad message? Or a good message for that matter?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Just to twist that around, Occupy Calgary's message hasn't been clear, does that mean it's a bad message? Or a good message for that matter?

Occupy Calgary's lack of a message makes all the protesters look like morons. It's neither a good message nor a bad message because a message doesn't exist.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Occupy Calgary's lack of a message makes all the protesters look like morons. It's neither a good message nor a bad message because a message doesn't exist.

Which makes it pretty hard to justify giving them an exception to our existing bylaws, imo.

How are they different than a guy in a truck with a bunch of signs? What gives them extra legitimacy?

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Occupy Calgary's lack of a message makes all the protesters look like morons. It's neither a good message nor a bad message because a message doesn't exist.

Yup, it's a damn shame that our freedom to assembly is being put at risk for essentially nothing. It will be even worse if they insist on pushing this all the way to the feds and we all end up losing out as a result.

I sure hope that the Occupy Movement's legacy doesn't amount to a charter right being stripped/amended due to abuse by a small stubborn group.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Yup, it's a damn shame that our freedom to assembly is being put at risk for essentially nothing. It will be even worse if they insist on pushing this all the way to the feds and we all end up losing out as a result.

I sure hope that the Occupy Movement's legacy doesn't amount to a charter right being stripped/amended due to abuse by a small stubborn group.

I still don't see how the enforcement of reasonable by-laws can be considered an infringement of Charter rights. I can't even think of a credible argument for that stance. Charter rights aren't unlimited, a ruling that by-laws can't be enforced when actions are hidden behind a charter right basically means that by-laws cease to exist.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

I still don't see how the enforcement of reasonable by-laws can be considered an infringement of Charter rights. I can't even think of a credible argument for that stance. Charter rights aren't unlimited, a ruling that by-laws can't be enforced when actions are hidden behind a charter right basically means that by-laws cease to exist.

At which point I will put up an extension on my house to protest the evils of capitalism, any use I get out of it as a media room is purely coincidental.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Which makes it pretty hard to justify giving them an exception to our existing bylaws, imo.

How are they different than a guy in a truck with a bunch of signs? What gives them extra legitimacy?

Cutting them some slack doesn't mean it's anarchy now so it's a good message to the public that bylaws are still being upheld.

The movement is North-America wide. Some attempts to forcibly remove protesters in other cities have led to violence, which we don't want as the weather will kick them out. The momentum for this thing is petering out and they'll be gone soon. If they're not, Nenshi will kick them out when the timing is right, which I would argue it isn't right now with worldwide media salivating for more riots.

It's not like this is a difficult problem or a crisis of any sort. It's a non-issue. Let's quit giving them attention (Cory) and it will go away.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by First Lady

My take away from yesterday..... Sympathy for city workers who have to clean up the ####.....literally.

There is crap in every park in Calgary. Usually it's dog crap. Where is your outrage at that?