2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

Or even just keeping it the same, would people accept gardiner for tkachuk?

Brodie at this point is a 2nd pairing d man who is regressing the last 2 seasons, nylander is a top line winger

On what planet?

He was 77th in PPG among forwards, despite being given protected minutes where possible. He isn't physical. He isn't a defensive specialist.

Eberle had 43 and 76 pts in his D+3 and D+4 seasons.

Nylander had 61 and 61 pts in those same seasons.

How is Nylander better than what Eberle was at that time? (a one-dimensional, offensive winger)

If he wasn't a Leaf, we would not even be discussing him.

[Sylvanfan]

One trade does not set league wide value. If anything the Flames are the team that's going to get fleeced because they are the more desperate one in the transaction.

[jonkaupp]

Tkachuk is definitely a next tier player over both Marner and Nylander, more so the latter. Both Nylander are both one dimensional scorers where as Tkachuk has already emerged as one of the best two way players in the league while also being one of the best at agitating his opponents. Not everything ispoints. My bet would be that Nylander will always be a notch below Tkachuk offensively and a mile below defensively. Marner has a little more offensive upside over Tkachuk.

That said, Brodie alone isn’t getting any of those players.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

One trade does not set league wide value. If anything the Flames are the team that's going to get fleeced because they are the more desperate one in the transaction.

I don't think they are that desperate. They could bring in a free agent like Kane or Neal. Not saying that's the way they should go but they have options. Flames aren't the only organization not pleased with how their season went. There's going to be lots of options for Treliving.

[Enoch Root]

Tkachuk got the same PPG in his D+2 season that Nylander got in his D+4 (Nylander played 22 games in his D+2 season).

Tkachuk is already elite defensively, is a world-class pest, and is a leader on the team.

How on earth is anyone comparing Tkachuk to Nylander?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

On what planet?

He was 77th in PPG among forwards, despite being given protected minutes where possible. He isn't physical. He isn't a defensive specialist.

Eberle had 43 and 76 pts in his D+3 and D+4 seasons.

Nylander had 61 and 61 pts in those same seasons.

How is Nylander better than what Eberle was at that time? (a one-dimensional, offensive winger)

If he wasn't a Leaf, we would not even be discussing him.

So there are 31 teams and 3 players on each team’s top line. Not to mention that some teams have second players like Malkin. Nylander was tied in points for 60th.

On what planet is he not a top line winger?

How many top line wingers are defensive specialists? He was a +20

Speaking of why we are discussing him, are there rumours the Leafs are potentially going to be shopping him?

As other posters have stated, 29 other teams will look at a 60 point 21 year old and he is surely going to get more offers than a 4th D man on a horribly underachieving D

Edit: For avoidance of doubt, I do not believe Nylander is as good or nearly as valuable as Tkachuk

[Erick Estrada]

I like Marner though. He's definitely worth much more than Brodie. I just don't see the Leafs moving him though as he's a better player than Nylander.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No Ricardodw, Larsson iis not a top pairing D-man. He is a 2nd pairing D-man on any respectable roster.

Hamonic and Larsson are very close comparables, IMO.

Well he was the top D-man in TOI in the Oilers 13 playoff games last year. To say that was not a respectable roster taking the Ducks to 7 games where does that put the Flames roster in terms of respectability?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Well he was the top D-man in TOI in the Oilers 13 playoff games last year. To say that was not a respectable roster taking the Ducks to 7 games where does that put the Flames roster in terms of respectability?

Interesting how we move away from the Flames to our biggest rival and suddenly you're an optimistic, rosy poster. We know what you're here to do, Ricardodw.

So you take Edmonton and hold Larson's performance in LAST YEAR's playoffs as proof that Edmonton's roster is more respectable than Calgary's despite the fact they crashed and burned and finished way below Calgary THIS YEAR.

That's just BS. We've seen enough, take a hike.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Well he was the top D-man in TOI in the Oilers 13 playoff games last year. To say that was not a respectable roster taking the Ducks to 7 games where does that put the Flames roster in terms of respectability?

Did you just argue that he played top minutes on the Oilers?

I will counter that with: Hamonic was on the top pair with the Islanders. Therefore Hamonic is a top pairing D-man too.

You have a tendency to take an individual stat and draw an absolute conclusion from it. Use a larger data set: Larsson has not shown that he can play consistently as a top pairing guy on a decent roster.

(Hint: the Oilers were unable to maintain their pace because they aren't a good team. And Larsson wasn't able to stay on their top pair because he isn't a top pairing guy - even on a crappy defense).

[dissentowner]

Nylander better than Tkachuk? Sounds like something you would read on HFboards.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nylander better than Tkachuk? Sounds like something you would read on HFboards.

Wait, what? Who said that?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So there are 31 teams and 3 players on each team’s top line. Not to mention that some teams have second players like Malkin. Nylander was tied in points for 60th.

On what planet is he not a top line winger?

How many top line wingers are defensive specialists? He was a +20

Speaking of why we are discussing him, are there rumours the Leafs are potentially going to be shopping him?

As other posters have stated, 29 other teams will look at a 60 point 21 year old and he is surely going to get more offers than a 4th D man on a horribly underachieving D

Edit: For avoidance of doubt, I do not believe Nylander is as good or nearly as valuable as Tkachuk

Points. The only argument for him. One dimensional, and fortunate enough to be playing with talented players on a team that tries to out-score you.

Based on the only thing that he has (points), he wasn't as good in this D+4 season as Eberle.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

One trade does not set league wide value. If anything the Flames are the team that's going to get fleeced because they are the more desperate one in the transaction.

This is true. A players trade value is determined by the market, which is perpetually changing.

The most relevant example I can think of is the leafs had offered a first round pick (could have been 2017 or 2018) and JVR for Hamonic. We all know what the Flames ended up paying.

This seems to make a lot of sense. Both the leafs and the Flames were good bets to make the playoffs. JVR headed into the final year of his deal seems to be worth 2 2nd rounds picks, maybe a little more which may have meant if the Flames wanted the deal to get done, there could be no limitations on the 1st.

If the Flames put any of their players on the market, it's Treliving's, and his support staff, job to find the best offer for the Flames.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by TOfan

This is true. A players trade value is determined by the market, which is perpetually changing.

The most relevant example I can think of is the leafs had offered a first round pick (could have been 2017 or 2018) and JVR for Hamonic. We all know what the Flames ended up paying.

This seems to make a lot of sense. Both the leafs and the Flames were good bets to make the playoffs. JVR headed into the final year of his deal seems to be worth 2 2nd rounds picks, maybe a little more which may have meant if the Flames wanted the deal to get done, there could be no limitations on the 1st.

If the Flames put any of their players on the market, it's Treliving's, and his support staff, job to find the best offer for the Flames.

What is close to 1st+JVR now?

Hamonic for 1st+Simmonds --- Personally, I think Philly would never do this. However, both players score similar number of points and Simmonds is also coming up to one more year left on his contract. It just goes to show how every GM in the league thinks differently and there is no way to figure out the actual value of a player.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I like Marner though. He's definitely worth much more than Brodie. I just don't see the Leafs moving him though as he's a better player than Nylander.

When he was struggling early in the year there were rumors he would eventually be traded for a Dman and then he ends the season as the leading scorer on the Maple Leafs.

Hamilton for Marner would be such a great trade for Calgary. Reunite Marner and Tkachuk and have 2 potent offensive lines. Ideally Jankowski or Bennett could step in and centre that group with Backlund and Frolik sliding down to the third line.

I really feel like the Flames need another core forward. That is largely due to Bennett not pinning out as hoped but Marner would fill such a huge organizational need for a very long time

[Sylvanfan]

If you compare Ryan Johansen to Seth Jones which player has more value? Yet one of the best GMs in the league made this deal and it's been a really good one for his team.

Values always come down to the individual people making the deals and how much they think it will help their team.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by keenan87

What is close to 1st+JVR now?

Hamonic for 1st+Simmonds --- Personally, I think Philly would never do this. However, both players score similar number of points and Simmonds is also coming up to one more year left on his contract. It just goes to show how every GM in the league thinks differently and there is no way to figure out the actual value of a player.

Yes. I agree in principle. I think Simmonds brings more to the table than JVR though. Although JVR has the size, Simmonds is much more physical.

The only people who know the value of a player, are the GM's. Treliving has a reputation of constantly working, I suspect he knows the value of his players.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

....where as Tkachuk has already emerged as one of the best two way players in the league while also being one of the best at agitating his opponents. ....

I love Tkachuk as much as the next guy, but it's hard to say he's one of the best two way players in the game based on back to back 48 and 49 point totals.

He'll get there, but he's not there yet.

For his age group, sure.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I love Tkachuk as much as the next guy, but it's hard to say he's one of the best two way players in the game based on back to back 48 and 49 point totals.

He'll get there, but he's not there yet.

For his age group, sure.

If he hadn’t gotten the concussion he would of likely had a 30/30 ish 60 point season. He’s certainly not the top 2 way player. Nobody touches Bergeron, among others that are ahead of him. But on a per game basis he’s definitely among the top of the league. I also feel if you slot him on the top line he’d be a 70 point player already. Perhaps I’m overhyping him but I don’t think by a lot.