While looking up Hezbollah a few minutes ago, TIL that they are an actual political party? I always thought they were like ISIS.
Both Hamas and Hezbollah are political parties with armed wing. They strive to govern the land they control. They do build schools, hospitals and such.
I don't hate Palestinians at all. If I were, I would have no problem stating it. But I don't.
Do you actually believe that?
As far as you're concerned they're all Hamas. One and the same. But you don't hate them? You don't hate Hamas?
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Originally Posted by Pointman
However, this is an eye opener for those, who believe that civilians are one thing and Hamas is another thing altogether. They are all one, they are united by one goal and one hate. Who is cooking food for Hamas fighters? Who is treating their wounds? Who is teaching their kids to hate Jews? The so called civilians. The whole Gaza population is rotten to bones. It's not a healthy population with Hamas being few bad apples that you can surgically remove.
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As far as you're concerned they're all Hamas. One and the same. But you don't hate them? You don't hate Hamas?
I guess you mistake Palestinians with Gazans. Gaza is a rebel break away enclave, that toppled and murdered Palestinian government and has been run by Iran-backed fanatics, whose main goal is destruction of Israel. Their whole education system, that is run by Hamas, is aligned into that goal. Gazans are brainwashed.
Palestinians, on the other hand, live on West Bank, a run by a secular FATH and are much less brainwashed.
There are also Israeli Arabs, they are wonderful. I see them every day in Haifa. My daughter's pediatrician is Arabian.
Wait isn't this Pointman the person who ran away from Russia because he was scared, he would have to go to war, and now is cheering on the slaughter of innocent civilians in Palestine.
So it's only the Gazan Palestinians you want to see genocided?
I don't want them to be genocided. I want them to give up the goal of destroying Israel.
The view that Hamas is just a bunch of terrorists is factually incorrect. It is a political party, that was very popular in Gaza. They won the elections. They run education system, healthcare system, all government institution. The best comparison I can think of is that Gazans are Hamas like Russians were Communists. Except that towards the end of USSR, Russians were disappointed in communism and largely yearned for western lifestyle. But in earlier years of USSR Russians were real communists. Communist party ran rhe whole state and was brainwashing everyone.
So, for Gaza, Gazans should be defeated. They should be dealt a strong punishing blow until they give up their goal of destroying Israel. They are brainwashed and unfortunately require a strong kick inti their collective nuts to come back to their senses. I don't want to kill each of them, but I do believe that a decisive defeat, like that of Japan, is necessarily. So they would come back to peaceful coexisting that we had in 70s.
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Pretty despairing of the intractability of the conflict when our resident Zionist is in favour of genocide on 2 million+ people. But the Palestinians in the WB are at least safe from genocide. Until they try to fight back. Then it's genocide for them too, of course.
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but I do believe that a decisive defeat, like that of Japan, is necessarily
Jesus H Christ. Are you real? Couple nukes could fix things I guess.
Wait isn't this Pointman the person who ran away from Russia because he was scared, he would have to go to war, and now is cheering on the slaughter of innocent civilians in Palestine.
I'm cheering on dismantling Hamas. Unfortunately, it required a bloody war. I wish there was a magic ward that would magically remove Hamas, without causing so much suffering and destruction. But there wasn't one.
Pretty despairing of the intractability of the conflict when our resident Zionist is in favour of genocide on 2 million+ people. But the Palestinians in the WB are at least safe from genocide. Until they try to fight back. Then it's genocide for them too, of course.
Jesus H Christ. Are you real? Couple nukes could fix things I guess.
Nuking is overkill, but you got my point right. The defeat on WWII did wonders to Japan. They, along with Gernany, have been one of the most pacifist countries in the world ever since.
I don't want them to be genocided. I want them to give up the goal of destroying Israel.
The view that Hamas is just a bunch of terrorists is factually incorrect. It is a political party, that was very popular in Gaza. They won the elections. They run education system, healthcare system, all government institution. The best comparison I can think of is that Gazans are Hamas like Russians were Communists. Except that towards the end of USSR, Russians were disappointed in communism and largely yearned for western lifestyle. But in earlier years of USSR Russians were real communists. Communist party ran rhe whole state and was brainwashing everyone.
So, for Gaza, Gazans should be defeated. They should be dealt a strong punishing blow until they give up their goal of destroying Israel. They are brainwashed and unfortunately require a strong kick inti their collective nuts to come back to their senses. I don't want to kill each of them, but I do believe that a decisive defeat, like that of Japan, is necessarily. So they would come back to peaceful coexisting that we had in 70s.
OK, so your theory is that by collectively punishing all of them, including the ones that did not vote for Hamas, or are not old enough to have ever had a chance, and many still too young to vote even if their were elections, they should all have their asses kicked so that they choose to go back to leaving in the land of peace and rainbows of the '70's?
That's some seriously disconnected from reality thinking you've come up with. I mean, kudos for having a plan, but damn.
Nuking is overkill, but you got my point right. The defeat on WWII did wonders to Japan. They, along with Gernany, have been one of the most pacifist countries in the world ever since.
Japan and Germany were never driven by religion, and didn't live in anything like the situation the Palestinians are. These are vastly, vastly different situations and you can in no way make that assumption.
Japan and Germany were never driven by religion, and didn't live in anything like the situation the Palestinians are. These are vastly, vastly different situations and you can in no way make that assumption.
Uhhhhh. wut?
WWII Germany wasn't driven by religion, they just merked 6 million people cause they didn't like the funny little hats that they wore.
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To me the only solution to prevent that form occurring again in Gaza would be for them to actually have a country, have it's borders not controlled by Israel, and somehow have the worlds largest rebuilding project so they have a safe secure home with opportunities, and there is no need to continue fighting.
I agree, but can you elaborate on the difference between what you're describing and what happened in 2005 when Israel pulled out of Gaza?
I'm cheering on dismantling Hamas. Unfortunately, it required a bloody war. I wish there was a magic ward that would magically remove Hamas, without causing so much suffering and destruction.
What do you mean? Suffering to who?
You've already stated that you consider them all to be Hamas.
WWII Germany wasn't driven by religion, they just merked 6 million people cause they didn't like the funny little hats that they wore.
It wasn't "driven" by religion. Meaning, the Nazi's motivations weren't based on old books and beliefs. Yes, the target was an ethno-religious group(though did they ever test for religion, or was it just Jewish ancestry?) but the drive behind it was not.
I agree, but can you elaborate on the difference between what you're describing and what happened in 2005 when Israel pulled out of Gaza?
Well there wasn't complete destruction at the time, so the starting point was different. But Israel did not just leave them alone, they controlled lots of things.
Spoiler!
The year following the disengagement saw a tightening of external Israeli control over Gaza, specifically, the closure of crossings into Gaza for people and goods, increased restrictions on the coastline for fishing, and increased aerial, maritime and on the ground military activity. The Israeli human rights organization Gisha lists various examples of actions requiring Israeli permission or approval in the year following the disengagement. These restrictions include the need for Israeli permission to import basic necessities such as milk, to host foreign lecturers at universities, and register children in the Palestinian population registry. Additionally, fishermen must obtain permission to fish off Gaza's coast, and nonprofits need approval to receive tax-exempt donations. Financial transactions such as the transfer of salaries to teachers are also controlled by Israel, which affects the payment of salaries by the Palestinian Ministry of Education. Moreover, farmers require authorization to export agricultural products, and students wishing to study abroad depend on Israel's approval for the opening of the Gaza-Egypt crossing.
Also, the motivation wasn't for Gaza to become strong on it's own, it was "described by Sharon's top aide as a means of isolating Gaza and avoiding international pressure on Israel to reach a political settlement with the Palestinians."
Gaza needs a non-cynical rebuild. And that would include a full withdrawal form the West Bank as well, and I can imagine that happening sometime between now and never.
Japan and Germany were never driven by religion, and didn't live in anything like the situation the Palestinians are. These are vastly, vastly different situations and you can in no way make that assumption.
Japan was kind of like a cult at that time. The emporor was considered a mortal descended from and in direct contact with the gods, otherwise known as kami. For followers of Shintoism, he wasn't divine himself, but he still needed to be obeyed and followed as if he was representing the gods.
A lot of people, even Japanese, acknowledge that defeating the Japanese military would not have been enough, but the society as a whole needed a shake up in order to advance.
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IDF takes down a child, waits for the ensuing crowd of people to notice and naturally run to the child on hopes of saving him, and at the right moment drops a larger missile to kill as many civiliansmembers of Hamas* as possible.
Edit - whoops meant to put "members of Hamas" instead of "civilians" as per IDF
