2007 NFL Regular Season

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by rubecube

No kidding. Injury-prone or not McNabb will probably go down as the best QB ever to put on an Eagles uniform. Another interesting fact, for a guy who is known for not being a very accurate passer, he holds the NFL record for most consecutive passes (24) and the most in one game (14). He also has the second lowest percentage of passes intercepted in a career.

And Philly fans wanted Ricky Williams.

The one game that stands out for me is that he broke his ankle early in the first quarter of a home game vs the Cards. It was real foggy that game, he played out the game, limped around for a few hours, won, then was shut down for 4 to 6 weeks after the game.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Lurch

You are a sad, sad man, as I think it's been said ad nauseum that there are basically no Favre haters, just those that thought the game had passed him by. Nonetheless, Favre looks like the old Brett Favre, not like an old Brett Favre as he appeared to be the last three years. The same could be said for Randy Moss to an even greater extent, but he doesn't appear to be getting quite the same stroking around here for some reason.

Comparing Moss and Favre's situations is ridiculous.

It's funny how those who did just flat out rip Tranny for suggesting that Favre had no business retiring have now decided to change their argument and still won't acknowledge they were wrong.

Moss is having a great year and I don't recall hearing anyone anywhere suggest that he should retire or that his skills had eroded.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I'm not a huge believer in relying on statistics to tell the story. I just looked up the stats for the Bills and Raiders games. Looks like the Broncos were superior in most statistical stories. Again, having not watched those games, how did it come to pass that the final result was so close?

Did the Broncos crap the bed in the red zone? 87 yard drives ending with turnovers?

Exactly.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Comparing Moss and Favre's situations is ridiculous.

It's funny how those who did just flat out rip Tranny for suggesting that Favre had no business retiring have now decided to change their argument and still won't acknowledge they were wrong.

Moss is having a great year and I don't recall hearing anyone anywhere suggest that he should retire or that his skills had eroded.

That was largely me, and I don't remember saying I wasn't. But everyone has got to admit that the 07 Farve, or the 07 Pack has absolutely nothing in common with the 05 or 06 versions of Favre and the Packers.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I thought it was a tough game and Giants were very good against the run and ran a number of blitz packages that gave the Cowboys a challenge. Their defense was way better than in the first game. But I think people aren't noticing that the Cowboys defense is good and getting better. That and Owens was just a complete mismatch for the Giants as really the only way they stopped him was by grabbing him, tripping him and whatever else they could get away with. Otherwise he was key on a couple of drives to keep them going and of course burned them twice.

Giants could indeed comeback yet again as they have rallied from looking useless to coming in with a chance to win a big one in the division race. They didn't quite get it done but by end of the season they could get another crack by getting in via the wildcard.

The Giants problem is that their Corners are just plain awful. And they match up horribly with teams with a deep threat. They will likely be a wildcard team, but they match up awfully with Dallas, Indy, NE and this year, GB.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

That was largely me, and I don't remember saying I wasn't. But everyone has got to admit that the 07 Farve, or the 07 Pack has absolutely nothing in common with the 05 or 06 versions of Favre and the Packers.

Exactly, he has a team.

But his physical skills haven't made some remarkable comeback. He had them those two years, he just didn't have the tools to use them effectively. His INT's were a direct result of trying to make things happen and trying to carry the team on his back.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Exactly, he has a team.

But his physical skills haven't made some remarkable comeback. He had them those two years, he just didn't have the tools to use them effectively. His INT's were a direct result of trying to make things happen and trying to carry the team on his back.

No, but his decision making has.

And his INT's are largely bad decisions.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Exactly.

So despite statistically dominating performances, they suffered from untimely turnovers and poor execution. That lead to close games and let teams back into the game that had no business being there.

Couldn't it also be said, then, that the Broncos won those games in spite of themselves? By some standards, that may be considered lucky...

[Sylvanfan]

Fact was Farve was playing in front of a very inexperienced line at the end of 2005 and the beginning of 2006. That line has had time to grow and come together as a unit. Now that he has some time to make a read and throw the ball Farve looks none the worse for wear. Tom Brady looks fantastic because his line is vastly under rated and does a great job blocking. Peyton Manning is at his best when he has time to throw the ball...put pressure on him and he'll throw INT's. Any QB will struggle if their offensive line is terrible.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Fact was Farve was playing in front of a very inexperienced line at the end of 2005 and the beginning of 2006. That line has had time to grow and come together as a unit. Now that he has some time to make a read and throw the ball Farve looks none the worse for wear. Tom Brady looks fantastic because his line is vastly under rated and does a great job blocking. Peyton Manning is at his best when he has time to throw the ball...put pressure on him and he'll throw INT's. Any QB will struggle if their offensive line is terrible.

Well regardless of the facts, he was putting the ball into spots a quarterback just shouldn't. Many of his picks were not a function of him being rushed, he was handing the ball over to the other team, throwning into 2x coverage.

Tom Brady does have alot of time, but he is also extremely accurate and can go through progressions/read the D as well as anyone.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

No, but his decision making has.

No, it hasn't. He's not a zombie. He's going to try to make plays. He wants to win. When you have a crappy team you're going to be forced into making risky throws. He's such a competitor he's willing to do that. Elway was the same way. And they pay for it when they are judged by 'experts' because they look at the high number of interceptions and extrapolate that into inferiority when the reality is that they are the two winningest QB's in NFL history. Why? Because they won lots of games they had no business winning.

Those first 3 teams Elway took to the Super Bowl weren't great teams at all. That's why they got murdered in the big game. It's actually amazing what Elway was able to accomplish before Shanahan got there and gave him some help.

Elway and Favre are the two best to ever play the game. They did more with less, they were rarely out of a game and they had an unmatched competitive fire and were able to will their teams to victory.

I will take those two over Montana every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Fact was Farve was playing in front of a very inexperienced line at the end of 2005 and the beginning of 2006. That line has had time to grow and come together as a unit. Now that he has some time to make a read and throw the ball Farve looks none the worse for wear. Tom Brady looks fantastic because his line is vastly under rated and does a great job blocking. Peyton Manning is at his best when he has time to throw the ball...put pressure on him and he'll throw INT's. Any QB will struggle if their offensive line is terrible.

So true and then if you also have a QB like Romo etc. who can move once their o-line does break down that gives them a couple of more seconds. But that first few seconds of being able to read is critical even if they can scramble.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by fredr123

So despite statistically dominating performances, they suffered from untimely turnovers and poor execution. That lead to close games and let teams back into the game that had no business being there.

Couldn't it also be said, then, that the Broncos won those games in spite of themselves? By some standards, that may be considered lucky...

Well, in the NFL there is simply a ton of parity. All teams will win or lose several games on a last second play or in the last minute or two. Better teams will put themselves in a position to win in the last second. At the end of the day, you are as good as your record, no better or no worse. You can say a team is much better or much worse than their record ... because they ARE their record.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by fredr123

So despite statistically dominating performances, they suffered from untimely turnovers and poor execution. That lead to close games and let teams back into the game that had no business being there.

Couldn't it also be said, then, that the Broncos won those games in spite of themselves? By some standards, that may be considered lucky...

Sure could and I've never argued otherwise.

But to suggest they were lucky to win simply because they won on the last play of the game is ridiculous.

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Comparing Moss and Favre's situations is ridiculous.

It's funny how those who did just flat out rip Tranny for suggesting that Favre had no business retiring have now decided to change their argument and still won't acknowledge they were wrong.

Moss is having a great year and I don't recall hearing anyone anywhere suggest that he should retire or that his skills had eroded.

Seriously? One of us is blind, because I thought I just flat out said I previously thought the game had passed Favre by, and that no longer appears to be the case, i.e. I was wrong. If you hadn't heard the sentiment that Moss had lost a step, etc. I won't bother with 100 links to show you otherwise, but Google will certainly back me up.

Also, what is ridiculous about Moss and Favre? IMO, they are the top two candidates for comeback player of the year - both sucked for the past 2 seasons and are now having years that are similar to their career best (Better in Moss' case as he is having an all-time great type of season).

Up until about week 6 I was not convinced on Favre as a few games does not outweigh 3 years of obvious decline IMO, but it is hard to suggest anything other than he is having a great year right now. 9 games is good evidence he is back as a quality QB - mistakes are down and production is up.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

So true and then if you also have a QB like Romo etc. who can move once their o-line does break down that gives them a couple of more seconds. But that first few seconds of being able to read is critical even if they can scramble.

Yeah, look at the change in the Cowboys when they went from Bledsoe to Romo....A good QB can make an average line look good and vice versa. Although I think the Cowboys line is improved a lot this year. When Romo can get away from trouble and buy those extra 2-3 seconds all of a sudden guys like TO, or Whitten, or Patrick Creighton find themselves open 25 yards down the field.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

No, it hasn't. He's not a zombie. He's going to try to make plays. He wants to win. When you have a crappy team you're going to be forced into making risky throws. He's such a competitor he's willing to do that. Elway was the same way. And they pay for it when they are judged by 'experts' because they look at the high number of interceptions and extrapolate that into inferiority when the reality is that they are the two winningest QB's in NFL history. Why? Because they won lots of games they had no business winning.

Those first 3 teams Elway took to the Super Bowl weren't great teams at all. That's why they got murdered in the big game. It's actually amazing what Elway was able to accomplish before Shanahan got there and gave him some help.

Elway and Favre are the two best to ever play the game. They did more with less, they were rarely out of a game and they had an unmatched competitive fire and were able to will their teams to victory.

I will take those two over Montana every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

When players people like make dumb plays people say they were just trying to make a play. When Joey Harrington does the exact same thing he is called a bonehead. Joey Harrington had crappy teams, but he'd throw into 2x coverage, and he wasn't regarded as a hero trying to do anything to win ... he was simply a dumb quarterback.

Anyway, let's not use present tense, he's much better with the ball this year.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

When players people like make dumb plays people say they were just trying to make a play. When Joey Harrington does the exact same thing he is called a bonehead. Joey Harrington had crappy teams, but he'd throw into 2x coverage, and he wasn't regarded as a hero trying to do anything to win ... he was simply a dumb quarterback.

Anyway, let's not use present tense, he's much better with the ball this year.

Because his team is better.

[Flames in 07]

Just watching Saints highlights ... I'm surprised they have won 4 of 9 games. This must be the worst secondary in the NFL in 10 years.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Because his team is better.

???

That arguement doesn't make sense.

Favre throwing into 2x coverage and earning a INT is ok, but Joey Harrington doing the same thing is not ok ... because Favre's team is better?

If so, his teams sucked for 4 years or so until this year, and Favre was at or near the top of the list for pics and throwing games away ... so then by this logic, his team was bad, so it wasn't ok ...