getting a little tired of the crack/meth heads

[TorqueDog]

The way you make the C-Train and downtown/Beltline safer / seem safer is by getting more people in those areas. More people on the C-Train, on the platforms, in the core, etc. This disorder has always existed to some degree, but the disorder became more prevalent when people stopped coming into downtown and using transit over the pandemic.

With that being said, I also don't think the indifference-disguised-as-compassion approach being taken by the City and the Province does bugger all to help matters or bring people back in.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Moral of the story is don't live in or commute to Marlborough. Clearly not enough will be done and whatever improved security efforts are being spread too thin to ensure that all trains are safe to board and stations are safe to wait in.

NE Calgary is the worst anyways.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The way you make the C-Train and downtown/Beltline safer / seem safer is by getting more people in those areas. More people on the C-Train, on the platforms, in the core, etc.

I understand the theory, but some of the sketchiest train systems in the world are also some of the busiest - it doesn't necessarily work in practice.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

See, I'm not sure any reasonable level of C-Train security stops that from happening. Unless you're going to have armed police on each train car at all times.

Random psychopaths are less preventable than some of the just... pervasive sketchiness that's plagued the transit system for the past few years especially.

Exactly. Even if you had more security peppered throughout the train system, the perpetrators would just wait until there wasn't security around to whip out the hatchet.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I understand the theory, but some of the sketchiest train systems in the world are also some of the busiest - it doesn't necessarily work in practice.

But in the case of Calgary, it was probably the single biggest thing that changed from the time when it wasn't an issue to now. Is the C-Train and downtown activity back at 2019 levels? I think with all the hybrid work arrangements going on, probably not.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I don't think it's back at 2019 levels, I'm just not sure that that actually IS the root cause of the issue. That takes more expertise to pin down than I have and I'm sure it's about ten overlapping causes that are really driving things, but to name just one, there is the rise of fentanyl along more or less the same timeline.

[lambeburger]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I understand the theory, but some of the sketchiest train systems in the world are also some of the busiest - it doesn't necessarily work in practice.

More people and eyeballs on the trains works in theory if there is an agreed upon definition of acceptable behavior among passengers and what to do when there is behavior that falls outside that standard.

In recent years there has been a subconscious social contract on the train that you keep your head down and don't make eye contact with or look at the folks who are high, suffering from a mental episode, sleeping off the drugs etc.

It's understandable that nobody wants to put themselves in a position that might compromise their safety, but at the same time when nobody does anything, this behavior becomes commonplace and just accepted as part of life using public transit.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

That's true, I think, but it is also incumbent on the operator of the service (in this case Calgary Transit) to establish a standard on its own that people can follow. It needs to be very obvious what you do when you see something on the transit system that requires the attention of transit staff or police - i.e., very obvious ads on all trains saying "if you see something, text us at NUMBER, we will respond immediately, also contact us here and here to tell us what's going on". Then take every issue seriously, whether it's people being loud and disruptive for no reason, people doing drugs, drinking, or acting publicly intoxicated, or people being aggressive / safety concerns. They can then triage those issues.

Passengers definitely play a role but you have to give them VERY easy tools to use in order to get them to actually do it. Even direct incentivies, e.g. "free bus pass for a month" rewards for tips that improve the system, are worth considering.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The way you make the C-Train and downtown/Beltline safer / seem safer is by getting more people in those areas. More people on the C-Train, on the platforms, in the core, etc. This disorder has always existed to some degree, but the disorder became more prevalent when people stopped coming into downtown and using transit over the pandemic.

I totally agree that having a high ratio of non-psychos/criminals to psychos/criminals makes an area feel (and be) safer. While there are less non-psychos downtown compared to pre-pandemic/oil crash, the psycho content has gone WAY up, and we aren't going to be able to dilute it enough without some real action.

Which brings up this:

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

With that being said, I also don't think the indifference-disguised-as-compassion approach being taken by the City and the Province does bugger all to help matters or bring people back in.

Throwing people in a clean room with medical supervision and free needles to get high, or throwing them in a jail cell are not going to solve the problem. Letting people live their life like this is not humane. We need to do way more, and it needs to be a coordinated national, provincial and municipal response to have any chance in hell of working. And we all need to suck it up and pay for it, because not doing it is going to cost us all way more.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I totally agree that having a high ratio of non-psychos/criminals to psychos/criminals makes an area feel (and be) safer. While there are less non-psychos downtown compared to pre-pandemic/oil crash, the psycho content has gone WAY up, and we aren't going to be able to dilute it enough without some real action.

I think I mentioned this a while back, but I was shocked. It was the first time I'd taken the train in years and it was to go to a Flames game.

I figured..."tons of Flames fans, the crazies will make themselves scarce because the ratio of normies to psychos will be tipped in our favour!"

Nope. The crazies did not give a single crap. I had to dodge 3 people shooting up and one guy who was out his goddamned mind.

I couldnt believe it. It has become that normalized that even flooded with normal people and families going to a hockey game there is no change in attitude or behaviour.

Sorry people...this problem doesnt appear as though its going to go away if we ignore it long enough. Its going to take some concerted action.

[Traditional_Ale]

Without cheap property/rents and good oil money for laborers and the service industries that come with that, is there actually a reason to live in a place that is a frozen wasteland nine months a year? And for those left behind?

Remember, people. This is CALGARY. Where unless you make at least $100,000/yr, live in a suburb, and drive a car you are obviously less than human and a failure at life; completely undeserving of even the most basic modicum of dignity and respect.

Now, that might sound like semi-humorous rhetoric on a msg board of people who make the same joke, but having spent likely a lot more time than most people on this board up close with the most undesirables, most rejected of society, the sentiment is bang on. Many of these people have descended to the level of animals simply because they feel so thoroughly rejected by not just their society, but the universe and life itself that all they can do is get high and somehow have the courage to not knowingly kill themselves. But for so many, death is a sweet and not unwelcome end even if they've convinced themselves they're not looking for it. At this point, who would give an eff what anyone anywhere thinks anytime?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sorry people...this problem doesnt appear as though its going to go away if we ignore it long enough. Its going to take some concerted action.

Well ya, but we can't sure of that unless we try doing absolutely nothing tangible at least a little bit longer...

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Well ya, but we can't sure of that unless we try doing absolutely nothing tangible at least a little bit longer...

That's totally unfair. The mayor rode the train with the police/media a few stops just last week.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

It's understandable that nobody wants to put themselves in a position that might compromise their safety, but at the same time when nobody does anything, this behavior becomes commonplace and just accepted as part of life using public transit.

No one wants to help because not only are they in harms way, they can end up being charged with a crime.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by zamler

No one wants to help because not only are they in harms way, they can end up being charged with a crime.

Pretty much exactly this situation is playing out in NYC right now. Crazy guy on the subway was threatening passengers, a bystander stepped in and put a chokehold on the guy, guy ended up dying.... and now bystander is facing a long prison sentence if convicted. Pretty bad outcome for everyone involved.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Pretty much exactly this situation is playing out in NYC right now. Crazy guy on the subway was threatening passengers, a bystander stepped in and put a chokehold on the guy, guy ended up dying.... and now bystander is facing a long prison sentence if convicted. Pretty bad outcome for everyone involved.

You mean the army guy who straight up murdered a dude? That was not a bystander helping out. That was one lunatic killing another lunatic. He had the guy in a chokehold for 15 minutes, was warned to release him or he might kill him, refused and is now facing 2nd degree murder charges.

Not the best example of bystanders stepping in.

[Table 5]

I didn't say what he did was right, I just pointed out the incident as an example of what can go wrong when citizens step in. When you are hoping for citizens and ex-army to do the policing, be prepared for crappy things to happen. Considering the degrading safety levels of transit systems around the continent, I'm sure it won't be the last time we hear of something like it.

[powderjunkie]

I will stand on the sidelines and mock any victims if they happen to be overweight.

[Goriders]

Eventually there will be a Bernie Goetz incident that will bring about change. No one wants to deal with the problem so it’s only going to get worse.

The thing I don’t understand is how so many politicians these days have decided decriminalizing or outright supplying drugs to addicts is the way to go.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Eventually there will be a Bernie Goetz incident that will bring about change. No one wants to deal with the problem so it’s only going to get worse.

The thing I don’t understand is how so many politicians these days have decided decriminalizing or outright supplying drugs to addicts is the way to go.

There's a lot of examples that show that decriminalizing drugs is effective, but it has to occur in communication with effective and mandatory treatment. Neither harsh combination nor letting people run amuck is going to work.