Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

One thing I liked about will nault, was that he actually called it hie he saw it, whether or not it was accurate. He was right quite a bit too.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

Hi Will

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The amount they get from YouTube itself is probably fairly easy to guess at, but there’s no data to show how much they get from sponsorships without knowing exactly what The Nation Network charges for sponsorships. Those are two entirely separate streams.

Well no, we don't need to know exactly what the Nation Network charges for advertising revenue to look at some comparable examples.

There looks to be a link to about 20 different sponsors on their podcast, from Telus to local pubs. The podcast links can't be worth much of anything. Maybe the youtube ads are worth a little more. Cliff is saying $100 for a radio spot on a top station in TO. If that's right, their ads would be worth much less. It is a tiny, tiny audience maybe between 5K and 8K views for most segments. And the ads themselves are not very noticeable at all.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yes and no, this is a VERY interesting time for the franchise with a lot to talk about

Sure, but CP isn't your average Flames fan. These times are extremely interesting for hardcore fans that are on here every day no matter the current state of the team. But that's a small fraction of the over all fan base.

And anecdotally that aligns as most people I talk to that aren't online discussing the Flames aren't bringing up the return possibilities of Lindholm and Hanifin, they're opinion is "man the Flames suck since they lost Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I haven't gone to or watched a game in a long time".

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well no, we don't need to know exactly what the Nation Network charges for advertising revenue to look at some comparable examples.

There looks to be a link to about 20 different sponsors on their podcast, from Telus to local pubs. The podcast links can't be worth much of anything. Maybe the youtube ads are worth a little more. Cliff is saying $100 for a radio spot on a top station in TO. If that's right, their ads would be worth much less. It is a tiny, tiny audience maybe between 5K and 8K views for most segments. And the ads themselves are not very noticeable at all.

Well, yes, If you want to know how much money they are making, you literally do need to start by knowing how much Nation Network charges.

It seems incredibly pointless to ask a question about a topic you have made obviously clear you have zero insight or relevant understanding of and then tell other people who do what is or isn’t important to reach an answer and what is or isn’t a relevant comparable.

It’s hard to even argue that “$100 for 30 seconds on unknown station in Toronto” is a comparable at all, considering we don’t know anything relevant about the context of that $100 (content type, provider, viewership, timeslot, ad play frequency, etc.). That alone would make it hard to use it as a comparable for 30 seconds of ad time on a major station in Calgary, let alone using it as a comparable for a different format on a different platform in what might be a different format serving a different demographic, etc.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Well, yes, If you want to know how much money they are making, you literally do need to start by knowing how much Nation Network charges.

It seems incredibly pointless to ask a question about a topic you have made obviously clear you have zero insight or relevant understanding of and then tell other people who do what is or isn’t important to reach an answer and what is or isn’t a relevant comparable.

It’s hard to even argue that “$100 for 30 seconds on unknown station in Toronto” is a comparable at all, considering we don’t know anything relevant about the context of that $100 (content type, provider, viewership, timeslot, ad play frequency, etc.). That alone would make it hard to use it as a comparable for 30 seconds of ad time on a major station in Calgary, let alone using it as a comparable for a different format on a different platform in what might be a different format serving a different demographic, etc.

I think it would be more fun to discuss the topic than simply starting an argument, no? Some people are claiming to have insights into how much the advertising is worth.

And I'm not saying what is or isn't a good comparable. Do you have any to offer?

How much for a banner to reach 5,000 viewers in a youtube video? I do know a little more than you are giving me credit for so your comment about "zero relevant understanding" is uncalled for. For example Nation Network doesn't set the market and they have very little pricing power. Everyone of their sponsors have countless options to choose from.

Is Cliff's radio example relevant? That's the question I asked. Certainly seems like a radio ad in a bigger market would be more valuable but I can't lend any credibility to his $100 number. Perhaps one of our experts can chime in.

[Jethro Choicebro]

Podcast links and youtube banners is not what the sponsors are paying for though, they are getting very personalised mentions/discussions during the show to a very specific audience/demographic. Boomer discussed at length about going to the Hearing Loss Clinic, endless talking about Vena Nova, Xmas dinner shopping at Bon Ton Meats, Bet Way segments etc etc- its not just your typical 30sec radio ad hit.

So I dont think Cliff's example is a good comparable, at least without more context. No idea of course though what the sponsors of BB are paying.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think it would be more fun to discuss the topic than simply starting an argument, no? Some people are claiming to have insights into how much the advertising is worth.

And I'm not saying what is or isn't a good comparable. Do you have any to offer?

How much for a banner to reach 5,000 viewers in a youtube video? I do know a little more than you are giving me credit for so your comment about "zero relevant understanding" is uncalled for. For example Nation Network doesn't set the market and they have very little pricing power. Everyone of their sponsors have countless options to choose from.

Is Cliff's radio example relevant? That's the question I asked. Certainly seems like a radio ad in a bigger market would be more valuable but I can't lend any credibility to his $100 number. Perhaps one of our experts can chime in.

It’s not meant to be a shot or anything so I’m not sure why you think it’s uncalled for, it’s just facts based on how you talk about everything from the links to their sponsors to the comparison between that, YouTube ads, and radio ads in another market. It’s not some fault not to know a lot about digital and traditional ad buying, it’s extremely boring and not fun which is why people get paid to do it. It’s not even that it’s too complex to understand, there are just a lot of variables that make a significant enough difference that it’s pointless guessing.

It’s not an argument either, you asked a question, I let you know what you would actually need to know to get an educated answer, and you said “well, no I don’t” so… cool?

Nation Network doesn’t set “the market,” sure… what market are you referring to? The podcast/livestream market? The digital advertising market? The Calgary digital advertising market? The Calgary podcast/livestream digital advertising market? Where does their pricing power come from, where is it lacking? Who does have pricing power in the market you’re referring to and why? What are the countless other options, what makes them viable options, and what are you measuring that on?

How much for a YouTube banner ad that reaches 5,000 people? Zero, because YouTube stopped doing banner ads last year. How much for the banner that Flames Nation puts in the video background? However much they charge and you would have to ask them to find out.

If you want, we could literally just make up numbers. Let’s say it IS $100 for 30 seconds of time in Toronto. Let’s say it’s on the biggest radio station (CBC Radio One) on their biggest program (they claim .5M per week so about 70,000 daily listeners). To come up with BB’s number, we’ll keep it simple and say 5,000 goes into 70,000 about 14 times so $100 divided by 14 is around $7. So, $7 for 30 seconds of time. Not including any shout outs to sponsors (this would seem like the most direct comparison, but radio and video are different), there are several unique pre-show sponsor logos and unique always-on top banners that show over the course of the episode. In 1 hour, there are 120 30 second segments, so x $7, that’s around $800 per hour if they charge $7 per 30 seconds of visibility (I’m positive it’s less, but we’re also not including any shout outs or anything else here). Since January 1st they’ve released about 12 hours of content, which would mean a daily average of around $1200 and if we multiply that by 30 we get $36,000 per month.

Is that close to accurate? Who knows. There are platforms like Twitch that can cost you $2 per impression for a display ad, multiplied by the number of impressions and the number of different sponsors (I counted 12 unique banners in one of the most recent videos with around 3.5K views) and that would be over $80,000 for the one episode (with just over $40K going to the creator). Is that a better comparable than a radio ad in Toronto? Probably, but it’s still a terrible comparable.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not meant to be a shot or anything so I’m not sure why you think it’s uncalled for, it’s just facts based on how you talk about everything from the links to their sponsors to the comparison between that, YouTube ads, and radio ads in another market. It’s not some fault not to know a lot about digital and traditional ad buying, it’s extremely boring and not fun which is why people get paid to do it. It’s not even that it’s too complex to understand, there are just a lot of variables that make a significant enough difference that it’s pointless guessing.

It’s not an argument either, you asked a question, I let you know what you would actually need to know to get an educated answer, and you said “well, no I don’t” so… cool?

Nation Network doesn’t set “the market,” sure… what market are you referring to? The podcast/livestream market? The digital advertising market? The Calgary digital advertising market? The Calgary podcast/livestream digital advertising market? Where does their pricing power come from, where is it lacking? Who does have pricing power in the market you’re referring to and why? What are the countless other options, what makes them viable options, and what are you measuring that on?

How much for a YouTube banner ad that reaches 5,000 people? Zero, because YouTube stopped doing banner ads last year. How much for the banner that Flames Nation puts in the video background? However much they charge and you would have to ask them to find out.

If you want, we could literally just make up numbers. Let’s say it IS $100 for 30 seconds of time in Toronto. Let’s say it’s on the biggest radio station (CBC Radio One) on their biggest program (they claim .5M per week so about 70,000 daily listeners). To come up with BB’s number, we’ll keep it simple and say 5,000 goes into 70,000 about 14 times so $100 divided by 14 is around $7. So, $7 for 30 seconds of time. Not including any shout outs to sponsors (this would seem like the most direct comparison, but radio and video are different), there are several unique pre-show sponsor logos and unique always-on top banners that show over the course of the episode. In 1 hour, there are 120 30 second segments, so x $7, that’s around $800 per hour if they charge $7 per 30 seconds of visibility (I’m positive it’s less, but we’re also not including any shout outs or anything else here). Since January 1st they’ve released about 12 hours of content, which would mean a daily average of around $1200 and if we multiply that by 30 we get $36,000 per month.

Is that close to accurate? Who knows. There are platforms like Twitch that can cost you $2 per impression for a display ad, multiplied by the number of impressions and the number of different sponsors (I counted 12 unique banners in one of the most recent videos with around 3.5K views) and that would be over $80,000 for the one episode (with just over $40K going to the creator). Is that a better comparable than a radio ad in Toronto? Probably, but it’s still a terrible comparable.

Are you saying a twitch video with 3500 views is generating $80K of advertising revenue? I think you get $2 to $3 per 1000 views maybe, not per single view.

Or maybe you're trying to be funny, I couldn't really tell. I think you also have to realize that an advertisement on a radio station is more valuable than some "visibility" like a banner on a video that reaches the same number of people. Now if they do a custom mention for a business on the show that is different, but they are not doing 120 30 second commercials during BB. They in fact do very few of those from what I can tell. If those are worth $100 on a radio station with a much larger audience, what is it worth on BB each time? Obviously less.

Anyway I don't know why you think a twitch video with 3500 views is a terrible comparable really. Depends on the audience I suppose. But your numbers are too high.

A little bit of internet sleuthing is telling me $3 to $4 per 1000 views. So maybe $20 from each sponsor per show. But I don't know how that works since in some cases these sponsors don't seem to get any visibility at all. A banner appears for a few seconds. Plus the custom mentions which are worth more. Anyway I can't see a small business spending very much at all for this.

So maybe they generate a few hundred bucks per show before whatever costs they have?

[Toonage]

Time to demand their tax returns be made public. Its the only way.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Are you saying a twitch video with 3500 views is generating $80K of advertising revenue? I think you get $2 to $3 per 1000 views maybe, not per single view.

Or maybe you're trying to be funny, I couldn't really tell. I think you also have to realize that an advertisement on a radio station is more valuable than some "visibility" like a banner on a video that reaches the same number of people. Now if they do a custom mention for a business on the show that is different, but they are not doing 120 30 second commercials during BB. They in fact do very few of those from what I can tell. If those are worth $100 on a radio station with a much larger audience, what is it worth on BB each time? Obviously less.

Anyway I don't know why you think a twitch video with 3500 views is a terrible comparable really. Depends on the audience I suppose. But your numbers are too high.

A little bit of internet sleuthing is telling me $3 to $4 per 1000 views. So maybe $20 from each sponsor per show. But I don't know how that works since in some cases these sponsors don't seem to get any visibility at all. A banner appears for a few seconds. Plus the custom mentions which are worth more. Anyway I can't see a small business spending very much at all for this.

So maybe they generate a few hundred bucks per show before whatever costs they have?

Hahaha ok man, you’re the expert.

[Yeah_Baby]

they've really made it when strangers on the internet are arguing about how rich you are or aren't.

[Freeway]

Be sure to like and subscribe.

[username]

fwiw, daily faceoff doesn't get anywhere close to the "# of views" that barnburner does and I don't think anyone believes Servelli is struggling......


If I'm a sponsor of Barnburner I'm paying more for the targeted 5000 views than I would for a 30 second ad on the radio. I know I'm hitting my target demo

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Hahaha ok man, you’re the expert.

Not at all. My daughter had attracted some clothing brands that advertised on her social media so I have seen some idea of the money. A short video and a link for a clothing brand with about 500k views got her $300 I think. Not $1 million. A different platform for sure and not like she was negotiating or anything.

I just don’t think McLeod Law firm is paying much for their name to appear for a few seconds during a long podcast that is honestly barely noticeable. That seems like park bench advertising with less reach.

As Jethro explained pretty well, the custom spots are worth more for sure. To be fair, I listen to their podcast but have never sat through an entire one. I’m just not hearing many of those and honestly given the small audience, it can’t be that expensive can it? The ones I have heard sound like radio ads to me.

Anyway I do wonder if their goal is to make a living doing this. For Pinder and Dean anyway.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by username

fwiw, daily faceoff doesn't get anywhere close to the "# of views" that barnburner does and I don't think anyone believes Servelli is struggling......


If I'm a sponsor of Barnburner I'm paying more for the targeted 5000 views than I would for a 30 second ad on the radio. I know I'm hitting my target demo

Doesn’t a local sports radio show hit the same demo? At that point, don’t you just care about the number of listeners? And the quality of the ad/mention as well.

[Toonage]

That may end up being background noise, an AM radio station with programming some listeners may not be interested in. People are seeking out Barn Burner specifically. Its more of a captive audience.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Not at all. My daughter had attracted some clothing brands that advertised on her social media so I have seen some idea of the money. A short video and a link for a clothing brand with about 500k views got her $300 I think. Not $1 million. A different platform for sure and not like she was negotiating or anything.

I just don’t think McLeod Law firm is paying much for their name to appear for a few seconds during a long podcast that is honestly barely noticeable. That seems like park bench advertising with less reach.

As Jethro explained pretty well, the custom spots are worth more for sure. To be fair, I listen to their podcast but have never sat through an entire one. I’m just not hearing many of those and honestly given the small audience, it can’t be that expensive can it? The ones I have heard sound like radio ads to me.

Anyway I do wonder if their goal is to make a living doing this. For Pinder and Dean anyway.

Again, it might be expensive, it might not be. It’s an engaged audience and there are 3000-5000 people sitting there watching a video while a banner sits in their view for minutes at a time, depending on the sponsorship.

As someone who actually works in the field and sits beside a guy whose sole responsibility is digital ad buying and managing digital campaigns, I’m telling you anecdotes and averages don’t mean anything, and it doesn’t matter what you can or can’t see, because your perception of value is out of whack.

You don’t like the answer, I get it, but the only way to know what they’re making is to ask Nation Network what their sponsorship packages are. Super Bowl ads aren’t really that effective (you can get far FAR higher ROI elsewhere), but people still pay out the nose for them because they have a certain reputation. It’s just not as simple as you want to be, and if you want to ignore all variables and context and just go off averages and anecdotes, then have at it.

[BigT112]

Why do people care about this so much? Enjoy the content.

[PepsiFree]

If we can’t inaccurately guess exactly what Pinder’s after-tax take-home is from a single anecdote about an unrelated billboard ad in Brisbane, Australia, we die.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by BigT112

Why do people care about this so much? Enjoy the content.

I don't get why people care so much about others discussing the potential details of the financial side of the podcast, claim to be an expert, then provide no solid information to aid the discourse.