Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I used to be an orderly at the Foothills in a previous life and one of the patients told me that being on his meds made him drool like a saint Bernard and that it was arguably harder to function in society doing that than hearing voices.

And he was terrified of doctors. They gave him shock treatment in the 50s. Said it was the worst kind of torture. Awful.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by townie_80

Reading some of these comments makes me sick. My dad was schizophrenic. Not something I talk about to even my closest friends. Because the stigma in our society is so bad. My dad was not a monster. He was once a loving husband, son and dad. The demons that got in his head were his undoing. He once told my mom he had to go for a while because the voices were telling him to do terrible things. He went off to the woods and camped for three weeks alone. It terrifies me to think of what could have been had he not realized he needed to go. These psychotic episodes can just happen at any time. It's so unfair to judge the parents for not handing him over for help. And the help in this province is not exactly great.

For those saying he will get off and live some happy life while everyone else involved suffers. Let me tell you that living with this disorder does not make for a happy life. My dad is no longer with us but I can say that the last 25 years of his life were not living. It was torture for him and it was torture for all who loved him.

This whole case is absolutely devastating. There will be justice for no one. I can't see how living life with schizophrenia is just. Sometimes life is awful and unfair and people end up suffering and there can be no justice. If he is found to be insane I really hope people understand that he is not a monster. And for those who still do - I sincerely hope that no one in your family ever has to suffer from this.

Thanks for sharing this... I am in the same boat with my mom, whom has diagnosed with this when I was a child roughly 20 years ago. Never really got to know her before I was fully functioning human being. Seeing her now is difficult... there are very small flashes of the stuff she remembers from 20+ years ago, but its littered in between nonsense. She believes that her children are dead and that when I see her I am the reincarnation of her former child.

She lived in her own bubble (a house my family owned), basically removed from society, however, she developed a hoarding disorder that overran her from own house and was forced into getting mental health attention. She is now in a group home with forced medication. The interesting thing is that although the delusions have decreased, she is so "mellowed out" that she basically has no personality, interests, or drive to really do anything. I think its clear that even though she was becoming a harm to herself, she actually deluded herself into believing that she has a higher quality of life before the medication came in.

So now when I visit or speak with her, I hear nothing other than complaints about the forced medications and her current situation not being up to her liking. It's a complete lose-lose. She's never been violent or mean, but you hear stories like De Grood and wonder what if the worst case scenario happens? I live with the fact that I have this mother that I basically never did and never will know that in my mind I think I am making the best decisions for out of her and the rest of the society's safety. Either way, her life is essentially a prison cell.... controlled either by her delusions or her medication.

My personal story helps me have compassion for DeGrood. For those who want justice for the kids and De Grood to pay for what he did, I can tell you that his quality of life sucks and even if his situation is treated correctly it may never improve.

These illnesses remove your ability to make thoughtful and rational decisions. In a rational state of mind he did not have a track record of doing things like this. Pretty clear to me that this was not "him", as much as it was an irrational state of mind he has little to no control over.

If you want justice for these 5 kids the answer is to continue removing the stigma that continues to remain in society. Like many things (ie. race, sexuality, etc.) this doesn't happen over night and is a process. From my vantage point, society is still behind other areas in regards to mental illness understanding. The death of these 5 kids was not about evil, or De Grood the rational human being. There were signs of odd behaviour exhibited by De Grood, and although his state of mind changed dramatically in a short time span, I do wonder if society had more acceptance over mental illness if his friends and or family would have been more aggressive in seeking help for him earlier. That type of action is what prevents tragedies such as this. The result is extremely sad for the 5 who died, the surviving family that grapple with understanding why this happened to them, De Grood who has to live with what he did and his mental health, and his family and friends who live with the regret of not taking action earlier. It's really really sad and painful, but to get justice, maybe this story will effect someone close enough to make a difference the next time they know someone going through a similar situation.

[corporatejay]

This thread is ####ing fantastic.

[Regorium]

Maybe I missed it, but is there any indication that he has any remorse for his actions?

[HarryH93]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Maybe I missed it, but is there any indication that he has any remorse for his actions?

I recall reading a quote yesterday where he said he regretted killing the girl, but nobody else.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by HarryH93

I recall reading a quote yesterday where he said he regretted killing the girl, but nobody else.

To clarify here, that was his quote the night of the incident when he was giving his report of the incidents to the police.

I don't believe as part of his statement during this trial he has gotten into remorse yet. I don't think we quite have a handle on what his frame of mind has been like since the incident.

[HarryH93]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

To clarify here, that was his quote the night of the incident when he was giving his report of the incidents to the police.

I don't believe as part of his statement during this trial he has gotten into remorse yet. I don't think we quite have a handle on what his frame of mind has been like since the incident.

Yeah, you're right. I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out in the next little bit.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Dr. AcGold strikes again.

The part that upsets me is that it would only take a 30 second google scholar search and reading an abstract of the meta-analysis of the data to understand that what he was suggesting was not only ridiculous but it borders on offensive as if psychiatrists who spend their entire careers with people like this would be unable to make an appropriate diagnosis without the use of a MRI. Can you place any less faith in a profession than that?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The part that upsets me is that it would only take a 30 second google scholar search and reading an abstract of the meta-analysis of the data to understand that what he was suggesting was not only ridiculous but it borders on offensive as if psychiatrists who spend their entire careers with people like this would be unable to make an appropriate diagnosis without the use of a MRI. Can you place any less faith in a profession than that?

Didn't bother googling. If MRIs could diagnose schizophrenia we all would have had one. Since I haven't had one I knew it was bull####.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Didn't bother googling. If MRIs could diagnose schizophrenia we all would have had one. Since I haven't had one I knew it was bull####.

We all did get an MRI, but the government puts that chip in you that makes you forget it.

[PaperBagger'14]

I can say from taking antidepressants for 10 years that the feeling they gave me is awful. Dopey and non chalant but still functional is not a fun way to live, and I myself had thoughts and several incidents of self harm. I'm now off of them and it's hard having to feel emotions you haven't felt in a decade.

I don't understand but I can empathize with how anti psychotic medications work. I imagine they are a very concentrated version of my meds that have you stoned beyond recognition. I was lucky in being able to have the ability to get off of them, which is unfortunately not an option for many schizophrenics. It really is no way to live, either trapped in your mind or lost in a haze of medical fog.

Even removing the stigma of mental disorders isn't an answer to this question. Sure it will lessen the amount of incidents, but they still have to be dealt with.

My best friends mother lost one of her sons to a murder, I've seen first hand the effect of it. That was almost 4 years ago and it still isn't significantly easier for her to deal with the loss. Her sons murderer was fit to stand trial and I hope that he will be able to rehabilitate to the point of being functional again. That isn't the case for de Grood if his disease can't be controlled. What's the most merciful justice that can be delivered? I don't know and I wish I did.

[mikephoen]

I appreciate everyone sharing their stories. Stuff like this is way more widespread than people think, it's just so socially awkward to talk about it that it rarely comes up. My brother has schizophrenia and my family has been dealing with it for 20 years now. There have been periods of good in there, and periods of awful. My parents (especially my mom) take the brunt of the awful, but I've gotten my share too.

He has been in the hospital multiple times, but once they get him back on his meds he is released. And then he is good for a while, as long as he takes his pills. But sooner or later he misses one or two, and then his brain tells him that the pills are evil or controlling him, and he stops taking them and things spiral out of control.

A couple months ago he made threatening comments to my mom and dad and they got the RCMP to come and get him. He was only in the hospital for a couple days though, before he talked his way out. He's definitely not taking his meds every day right now, or if he is, they're not working any more.

Here is an unedited email I got from him back in April, to give you an idea of what my family has been dealing with for 20 years:

Did you here? Ottawiian Roast Pig in Toronto in their park! Ottawiian Roast Pig, aw man, if that gets into Fort Mac, they'll shut the whole place down. Someone, stop them, d'ya hear!


No kidding at all. Ottawiian Roast Pig. They're too stupid in Toronto, this is bad. Did you know they start heading for Red Deer when and if that's that in T.O.? They're too stupid for Toronto, now. Gad.


Ottawiian Roast Pig is Ottawiian Roast Pig! These are the stupidest people you have ever seen, literally. I know that Dad thought it was the Sysco buyer that made Mark too snobby to bother. They'll Ottawiian Roast Pig, Mac attack, and are displaying Dwarf Star Class Pediphilia openly and at the workplace.


This information has been brought to Dr. Beshai's attention, completely. That does not give me my job back, what so ever. Dr. Safa Beshai is chief of psychiatry at Red Deer Region Hospital, so I guess that's that for your little brother. Hopeless.


Thank you for keeping me in the loop, though. Honest, those are the stupidest people you have ever seen, really. Yuck totally, yuck right now, and yuck to maximum.


Not kidding though. Ottawiian Roast Pig in Fort Mac, no mercy at all. Those are multi billion dollar industrial installations. No mercy? Those stupidest people are the stupidest people on earth. What a mess. Red Deer is some total mess, total. All them Fort Macers keep their significant others here. Disgusting mess, really, really. Them Hell's Angels sure don't at all understand anything. Hell's bells, the Piranhas would take over. The Piranhas!


Regards.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Utterly amazing and horrifying at the same time.

Ottawaiian Pig Roast.

[afc wimbledon]

I suspect the internet isn't great for those suffering from psychosis, the shear quantity of crazy stuff that we all get thrown at us now is damn near overwhelming for the best of us, if your grasp of reality is slipping it must be impossible not to be drawn into various weird theories on line.

[Mr.Coffee]

mikephoen thanks for sharing. I've never seen, heard or researched much about schizophrenia so it's very interesting to see the unedited version of what is said or thought. Only thing that rings within me is empathy. Not sure what else to say really, just terrible.

[Thor]

Yes thank you to all the posters sharing your stories, mental health is a stigma still in our society and bringing us a human face to all this means so much to break that stigma and give us all perspective, even in such a horrific event like this stabbing.

Much respect!

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

You can't identify schizophrenia from a MRI. There are definite structural differences that are seen across populations but that can't be used to make a diagnosis on an individual level.

It can help in correlation. Research in the area has been going on for more than a decade and brain scans are valuable in identifying potential abnormalities. You speak as if what I suggested is completely imaginary when the science is constantly being worked on. If as it is claimed that he is schizophrenic there are multiple brain structures that are potentially impacted. You are correct that it's not purely a diagnosis tool, but it can be used in conjunction as it's likely there are structural differences.

Effected brain areas include the amygdala, hippocampus, and parahippocampal gyrus, and neocortical temporal lobe regions.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...20996401001633

Scientific research predicts degraded medial temporal lobe, larger ventricle veins and reduced grey matter.

Conclusions: The results suggest differences in affected limbic structures in patients with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. These specific neuroanatomic abnormalities may shed light on the underlying pathophysiology and presentation of the two disorders.

Results: Hippocampal volumes were significantly smaller in the schizophrenic group than in both bipolar and normal comparison subjects. Further, amygdala volumes were significantly larger in the bipolar group than in both schizophrenic and normal comparison subjects.

Here they use it as a tool in diagnosis on a personal level.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20021077

There's hundreds of studies regarding effected areas. It's unlikely Degrood has a completely normal brain and scans would probably be valuable for research.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

You can't identify schizophrenia from a MRI. There are definite structural differences that are seen across populations but that can't be used to make a diagnosis on an individual level.

It can help in correlation. Research in the area has been going on for more than a decade and brain scans are valuable in identifying potential abnormalities. You speak as if what I suggested is completely imaginary when the science is constantly being worked on. If as it is claimed that he is schizophrenic there are multiple brain structures that are potentially impacted.

Effected brain areas include the amygdala, hippocampus, and parahippocampal gyrus, and neocortical temporal lobe regions.

These findings include ventricular enlargement (80% of studies reviewed) and third ventricle enlargement (73% of studies reviewed). There is also preferential involvement of medial temporal lobe structures (74% of studies reviewed), which include the amygdala, hippocampus, and parahippocampal gyrus, and neocortical temporal lobe regions (superior temporal gyrus) (100% of studies reviewed). When gray and white matter of superior temporal gyrus was combined, 67% of studies reported abnormalities.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...20996401001633

Conclusions: The results suggest differences in affected limbic structures in patients with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. These specific neuroanatomic abnormalities may shed light on the underlying pathophysiology and presentation of the two disorders.

Results: Hippocampal volumes were significantly smaller in the schizophrenic group than in both bipolar and normal comparison subjects. Further, amygdala volumes were significantly larger in the bipolar group than in both schizophrenic and normal comparison subjects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10903411

When doctors suspect someone has schizophrenia, they typically ask for medical and psychiatric histories, conduct a physical exam, and run medical and psychological tests, including:

Tests and screenings. These may include a lab test called a complete blood count (CBC), other blood tests that may help rule out conditions with similar symptoms, and screening for alcohol and drugs. The doctor may also request imaging studies, such as an MRI or CT scan.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20021077

MRIs and CTs are used on an individual level in conjunction with DSM criteria.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by AcGold

It can help in correlation. Research in the area has been going on for more than a decade and brain scans are valuable in identifying potential abnormalities. You speak as if what I suggested is completely imaginary

I think what was being challenged was mainly your assertion that:

an MRI test would be better than a verbal evaluation.

When it appears that currently brain imaging primary function is more of a tool for eliminating other possible causes of the symptons rather than identifying.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Are you citing 15 year old research, which doesn't say what you are trying to argue? As I said there is information that MRIs can show across populations but they can't be used on an individual level. Don't cherry pick research that fits your awful narrative that psychiatrists are incompetent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23612107

An MRI and a CT scan would be used in order to rule out other causes for a psychosis/altered LOC (ie a tumor).