April 23 2012: Alberta Provincial Election

[Fire]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

Redford's plan called out by Raj.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/04/05...invents-triage

Another moronic move by Redford. Her grave is getting deeper and deeper. Maybe Raj's plan to get all the "Progressives" to vote for the Liberals will work.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Azure

Ah right. The standard 'need to throw more money at the problem in order to solve it' response.

Alberta and Canada won't ever solve our health care problem until we go to the two-tier European style system.

How is that what I said at all - I said invest money in a healthy population, preventing people from getting sick, using hospital beds and emergency services for preventable illnesses. Healthy public policy is the most effective way to spend money if you want to alleviate the pressure on the health care system as well as making it cost effective and possible for people to have seniors live with them (people's parents) rather than people sitting in hospital beds for extended periods of time until a long term care bed opens up, instead of giving money to all because you can, invest money into assisting people who care for seniors in their house, it costs the government less and offers better care for the client/senior.

It isn't about throwing good money after bad, it is about figuring out where the inefficiencies in the system lie and attempting to rectify the issue, something neither party has really committed anything to. After that look into subsidized gym memberships, increased education in school on healthy food/life choices, have foods/cooking as a mandatory option in Junior High and teach kids how to make healthy meals rather than the crap that they eat now, bring back things like participaction on a provincial level for kids, use celebrities in order to promote a healthy lifestyle choices (how many 8-12 year old kids would listen if Iginla or Hall were to talk about proper health choices)... that is how you save money in the long term, using innovative approaches to complex situations by preventing people from getting ill.

If you think that is the standard throw money at it approach then I think you are completely wrong, it is the approach which saves money if nothing else.

Edit: I do agree with some private health care actually but I also know enough that if the province willfully ignores the Canada Health Act it will not receive funding from the Federal government for which Alberta received roughly 2 billion dollars last year.

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

Redford's plan called out by Raj.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/04/05...invents-triage

"Allison Redford invents triage." Not a big fan of Raj but that was gold!

[pylon]

Al Gore invented the Internet. Redford invented triage.

After supporting the PC's my whole life, they have officially lost my vote. Wildrose it is.

If she is that ######ed, and inexperienced in life that she has no clue this procedure is in place in every hospital, emergency room, and frikkin wak-in clinic in the province, she is unqualified to run the province. If you walk into a plastic surgery clinic with a limb half severed the surgeon would drop his boob-job in its tracks to save someones life. It is part of the hippocratic oath Redford you idiot. SO if it is going to be an inexperienced candidate, it may as well be a good looking one.

Anyway, I needed a good laugh this week, and it's time for change in this province. Plus that money Smith is promising to give me will pay for at least 3 years of Brazzers premium. Thanks for the porno Danielle!

[Slava]

You guys are amusing (and its a gold line trotted out by Raj, who ought to know as he still works a day a week in the ER). I think you're all forgetting what the ER experience is actually like though. Say you break your arm. Its obvious. At this point you're sitting there waiting for a doctor. Then you see the doctor (after how long of a wait?) and they say something like "so, hurt your arm fella? How'd you do that?".

After a one second conversation and a quick peek, they send you for x-rays. Its silly. Everyone knows its a broken arm, so you shoukd be sent for x-rays immediately, but the system doesn't work that way. Under this new plan though, it will.

I realize that doesn't sound earth shattering, but it makes sense. Why have the guy sit there and tie up a doctor for hours when everyone knows whats wrong? Just get him the care and get him out the door.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

Al Gore invented the Internet. Redford invented triage.

After supporting the PC's my whole life, they have officially lost my vote. Wildrose it is.

If she is that ######ed, and inexperienced in life that she has no clue this procedure is in place in every hospital, emergency room, and frikkin wak-in clinic in the province, she is unqualified to run the province. If you walk into a plastic surgery clinic with a limb half severed the surgeon would drop his boob-job in its tracks to save someones life. It is part of the hippocratic oath Redford you idiot. SO if it is going to be an inexperienced candidate, it may as well be a good looking one.

Anyway, I needed a good laugh this week, and it's time for change in this province. Plus that money Smith is promising to give me will pay for at least 3 years of Brazzers premium. Thanks for the porno Danielle!

I don't think that Redford is an idiot at all - in fact I can guarantee you that she is smarter than you or I based upon her background. I am sure that the plan wasn't well rolled out, as most things the PC Party have done these days aren't but I have a feeling it is slightly more complex than triage. That being said I haven't had a chance to actually look at the actual proposal and am not relying on a soundbite from a rival politician in order to gauge my viewpoint on the matter. Actually it seems like more emphasis being placed upon a minor emergency setup rather than a different triage, likely in my understanding using a dedicated team to move people out of the door quicker with minor wounds allowing others to focus on more severe illnesses/injuries. I think this is a case of reinventing the wheel to a certain degree but I think that people aren't going to develop much of an understanding of it either if all they focus on is Smith's glib comments of, why was this not announced in the previous 41 years or Sherman's "Redford invented triage"

It isn't a new idea but putting more of a focus on a minor emergency in order to alieviate some of the strain on emergency departments. Personally I don't think it will make more than an iota of a difference in the long run.

[Rathji]

When my daughter was sick a few weeks back we went to Urgent care, they put her and my wife into a 'fast track line' which is just a row of chairs for potentially easy to diagnose stuff. Once they found out it was much more serious, they put her back in a room. This is drastically different than anything that has happened in the past, and is certainly in addition to normal triage. Isn't that what the PC plan seems to be about? I will admit I have not read anything in detail on this.

My first impression is that of the 2 choices the PC defined option is more precise, even if possibly ineffective, and the WRP seems to be just spewing catch phrases in order to generate votes.

I wish one of the leaders would say something outrageously stupid so I wouldn't have to have these internal debates with myself and just call the issue done. With the civic election it was quite easy. Candidate by candidate they would eliminate themselves from consideration and then the one candidate with the solid platform was an easy choice. With this election it seems like it is voter handjobs left right and center with no consistency from anyone.

[pylon]

No offense Slava, but I have walked into the ER numerous times in my life with some part of my body with meat hanging out of it, a limb twisted backwards, or impaled with something, and I have never not been rushed directly to the back for repairs ahead of all the "Take some Nyquil and get some rest" patients.

I vividly remember at 25, walking in there with a branch protruding from my lower leg, being sat down, and having the nurse come over and tell me they will have me in the back within minutes so they could get it out. Some stupid lady with no visible sign of trauma, who just has sniffles and looked under the weather pipes up real loud to the person next to her how "This is bs, been here 2 hours.... yada, yada." I stared at her until she made eye contact, and pulled the towel back on my leg showing I branch with a 1.5 inch diameter, sticking out of my shin, then just shook my head. She hung her head in shame, and I smiled at her.

99% of the people complaining about wait times, are chronic complainers, and usually chronic hypochondriacs. If you walk into the ER, and you are truly in an emergency situation, you do not wait.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

No offense Slava, but I have walked into the ER numerous times in my life with some part of my body with meat hanging out of it, a limb twisted backwards, or impaled with something, and I have never not been rushed directly to the back for repairs ahead of all the "Take some Nyquil and get some rest" patients.

I vividly remember at 25, walking in there with a branch protruding from my lower leg, being sat down, and having the nurse come over and tell me they will have me in the back within minutes so they could get it out. Some stupid lady with no visible sign of trauma, who just has sniffles and looked under the weather pipes up real loud to the person next to her how "This is bs, been here 2 hours.... yada, yada." I stared at her until she made eye contact, and pulled the towel back on my leg showing I branch with a 1.5 inch diameter, sticking out of my shin, then just shook my head. She hung her head in shame, and I smiled at her.

99% of the people complaining about wait times, are chronic complainers, and usually chronic hypochondriacs. If you walk into the ER, and you are truly in an emergency situation, you do not wait.

Then look for the real issue in that story and the lady with the sniffles (who knows what she really had by the way) and that was a lady who likely didn't have a family doctor.

And I would say 50% of the people who truly require emergency departments are those who are vulnerable, most often the elderly who have undergone some sort of traumatic injury or illness and often times require hospitalization and have to wait for a bed to open up on a medical floor in order to get there. The reason those beds aren't open is because there is no long term care available for them to move into and the situation at their residence isn't viable. That is where the backlog in emergency really happens, it isn't the sniffles or the boo-boos on the leg, it is more systemic than that and it is the fact that the population is getting older and with age comes the inevitable injury and illness.

And that isn't addressed by any of these political parties buzzwords which is a real shame.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

But I am sure you as a car salesman have a better understanding based upon your experiences working in health care.

Oh, did I not announce it? I am no longer a car salesman. I got an online degree in Science last weekend from the University of School, and am now a certified assistant furnace repair specialist.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

Oh, did I not announce it? I am no longer a car salesman. I got an online degree in Science last weekend from the University of School, and am now a certified assistant furnace repair specialist.

Congratulations, did that come with an Honours in Snobbery?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Fire

I'm not sure why people are so scared to add more privatization to the health care system. I think it's mostly people being indoctrinated into the belief that anything but a 100% public system is a heartless system.

Know why costs are so high for things in Alberta? Competition from a hot private sector. A parallel private system would put a ton of pressure on the public system. Instead of reducing costs it could easily increase them (depending on how much competition we are already subject to - there's pressure from other jurisdictions already).

Letting people jump the queue within the public system if they pay in extra I could see being workable - you could reinvest that money into the public system such there is no net loss to the general public, or even a net gain.

And yeah, a greater emphasis on primary care would be a good idea as far I can tell.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Congratulations, did that come with an Honours in Snobbery?

LOL, you call me down for being a "Car Salesman" and you are accusing me of being the snob?

OK.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by pylon

No offense Slava, but I have walked into the ER numerous times in my life with some part of my body with meat hanging out of it, a limb twisted backwards, or impaled with something, and I have never not been rushed directly to the back for repairs ahead of all the "Take some Nyquil and get some rest" patients.

I vividly remember at 25, walking in there with a branch protruding from my lower leg, being sat down, and having the nurse come over and tell me they will have me in the back within minutes so they could get it out. Some stupid lady with no visible sign of trauma, who just has sniffles and looked under the weather pipes up real loud to the person next to her how "This is bs, been here 2 hours.... yada, yada." I stared at her until she made eye contact, and pulled the towel back on my leg showing I branch with a 1.5 inch diameter, sticking out of my shin, then just shook my head. She hung her head in shame, and I smiled at her.

99% of the people complaining about wait times, are chronic complainers, and usually chronic hypochondriacs. If you walk into the ER, and you are truly in an emergency situation, you do not wait.

99% of people who routinely end up in the emergency room with serious cuts and contusions, broken bones, and limbs impaled with tree branches probably shouldn't act like an expert in medical care.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by pylon

LOL, you call me down for being a "Car Salesman" and you are accusing me of being the snob?

OK.

What would you prefer to be called then?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

99% of people who routinely end up in the emergency room with serious cuts and contusions, broken bones, and limbs impaled with tree branches probably shouldn't act like an expert in medical care.

I actually lol'd at that.

Motorcycle crashes, skiing crashes, and beer league injuries aside, I do have a lot of experience as a patient. I am certainly not an expert in medicine. But I have never had an issue with the end user experience for my needs. And I have never felt I have had to wait an unreasonable amount of time. However, I have never once in my life entered an emergency room for anything but a broken bone or severe laceration. Sniffles are what walk-in clinics are for.

IMO, I do not think emergency care is what is lacking. I think emphasis needs to be put into areas of wait times for non-emergency procedures like hip replacements etc. I have seen the pain a relative had to endure waiting 2 months for a back surgery, and yes that was a system failure in my eyes. I think isolating emergency care as the immediate issue, is not where the priority should be.

[Flickered Flame]

Redford to offer teachers a $500 rebate and the libs to spend 15 mill on a school lunch program.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...t.html?cmp=rss

Not a fan of another rebate promise but its clear that the PCs have made education a priority, whatever that means to the PCs, with this rebate and yesterday's announcement. As I mentioned previously in thread, the Wildrose platform on education will be basically taking 2 or 3 steps backwards. All the other parties have been saying the right things in terms of what needs to happen in education. If Redford continues to make promises in education, she will guarantee herself thousands of votes, obviously not every teacher will vote PC but a good majority might and there are somewhere between 35000 and 40000 teachers in the province.

I actually watched an education forum hosted by the Edmonton public school board last night. The forum had a candidate from each party except the Wildrose who had a senate candidate sit in on the panel while an actual MLA candidate sat in the crowd. Each person was granted 2 minutes to answer 5 different questions. Considering I'm a conservative, the party that made the most sense educationally was the Alberta Party.

[Azure]

Spend, spend, spend.

Just trying to buy votes.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

I actually watched an education forum hosted by the Edmonton public school board last night. The forum had a candidate from each party except the Wildrose who had a senate candidate sit in on the panel while an actual MLA candidate sat in the crowd. Each person was granted 2 minutes to answer 5 different questions. Considering I'm a conservative, the party that made the most sense educationally was the Alberta Party.

The Catholic board here in Calgary is doing this as well: http://www.cssd.ab.ca/default.asp?V_ITEM_ID=1675

[corporatejay]

“The legalities of abortion fall under federal jurisdiction. We respect that Albertans view social issues differently, which is why Wildrose would immediately introduce legislation allowing citizens to put issues like abortion of citizen initiated referendum. “

Still doubtful, I called and asked a Wildrose spokesman myself about the matter this evening.

Bill Bewick, the party’s spokesman on health policy, told me that a Wildrose government could not ban abortion, since that’s a matter of federal responsibility. However, he said, the province could opt to delist abortion, so that the service would no longer be covered by the province’s health insurance plan.

“We have no plans to address this issue. We will not legislate on it,” Bewick told me.

On the other hand, he told me, the party does favour citizen-sponsored referenda on a wide range of issues.

“People are free to initiate referenda on any issue they want,” he said.

But when I asked Bewick if the Wildrose campaign would commit not to delist abortion, he declined to do so.

/

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...the-third-rail