Should Winter Tires be Necessary?

[burning_acid1]

I think the public just needs more education about the benefits of winter tires - they can make their own decisions after that.

[pylon]

Absolutely it should be mandatory. All seasons at least. Especially now that summer performance tires are becoming more and more common on the higher performance cars. I see a ton of GTI's going out of our dealership on summer rubber, and unfortunately, those tires are like hockey pucks in the snow. Regardless of how good you think you can drive, they can be impossible to stop on, and will do really weird things on ice, like flip the car backwards with no notice.

I have felt it should be handled this way. If you purchase a new car with Summer only tires, the dealer should offer a no charge swap option for all seasons, or you must buy a separate set of winter tires. Its A or B, no grey area. Insurance companies should also do random inspections on vehicles to make sure summer rubber isn't being used, and the cops should have the right to impound cars with summer tires. It is far more dangerous than many other violations they will impound you for. I have seen about 4 cars come in on hooks this week, all with 18" summer rubber on them, and front ends wiped off the cars.

I do not feel its fair that a guy is potentially driving around in a vehicle that has an extremely unsafe piece of equipment on it, putting me at risked of being t-boned... simply because he's cheap. And all of these cars I have seen come in this week likely hit someone elses vehicle, devalued or wrote off their car, and potentially injured them at the expense of someone elses irresponsibilty and frugality.

[Scottmisfits]

One big problem I see is tire availability. When it was pushed through in Quebec you couldn't get a set of winters to save your life. I don't use winters but a friend of mine was looking for some and called up most of the major and a few of the minor tire shops in the city and was told March, when he had called in November. The tire manufacturers knew about this change in legislation, as did the tire shops, well in advance and my buddy was a victim of circumstance in buying a new car right in time for winter to hit. Why weren't the Manufacturers and shops prepared when they know the consumer will not be?

[AFireInside]

HAHA.. Wow, so many great drivers around these parts...


I've never been involved in any serious incidents (knock on wood), grew up waaay up north. Never had winter tires until last year. What a difference.

Don't give me the crap about all seasons being fine. I had BRAND NEW all seasons on my brand new car, and last year on the first big dump of snow, had serious difficulty getting up some hills..

If you can avoid big hills, you can certainly get by on all seasons, Calgary's winters aren't all that bad (at least not compared to where I come from).

But winter tires do make a difference when you have to make a quick move or stop in a hurry. Doesn't matter how good of a driver you are, sometimes you have no choice...

That said, I don't think winter tires should be mandatory.. All seasons should be standard though.

Pretty tough to convince a family with a tight budget to spend that kind of cash on tires instead of food or rent..

[pylon]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Pretty tough to convince a family with a tight budget to spend that kind of cash on tires instead of food or rent..

I am ok with all seasons at minimum. I think a family on a very tight or fixed income may have some serious issues with priorities if they are driving around on high performance, directional summer Pirelli's.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think everyone should at least be forced to drive a car with and without. I was on the all-season kick until these threads a couple years ago. I used the I'm a good driver excuse, but it was because I was cheap.

It made a HUGE difference. My wife was pretty damn skeptical about getting them but raves about them now.

My folks were the all-season people until last year where they got them. They just wouldn't go out, now they are driving all over, although I shutter to think of the people they are pissing off going way too slow.

The tire companies should do free test drives, on an identical car, with the different tires.

But no, the government fata's things up and we don't want them involved in more things than they need to.

Same story here except I went the all weather route because I am lazy as well as cheap. I don't have to swap tires.

Going from a M/S tire to all weather has made a huge difference especially last year when McIvor blvd was snowed under and I had to drive around a redonk jacked up Hummer H2 that was stuck. Jeep FTW. My M/S wranglers would have got me stuck for sure.

[Deegee]

All season tires are fine.

Winter tires are significantly better.

To say otherwise is ignorant.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am ok with all seasons at minimum. I think a family on a very tight or fixed income may have some serious issues with priorities if they are driving around on high performance, directional summer Pirelli's.

Why would they be driving on high performance summer tires? Can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.. Damn internet.

You do realize that a lot of cars just come with standard summer or all seasons right?

But yes in Canada all seasons at a minimum...

I think a bigger problem are the people that have old all seasons that need to be replaced and they continue to drive on them.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

You know their are poor saps like me out there in the world. I can't afford winter tires because I'm using the university student excuse.

[Mr.Coffee]

they're expensive but I wonder how many less accidents and headaches there'd be with them fully implemented...

hmmm ralph bucks or subsidized winter tires?

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think we live in a society where people are entitled to make their own decisions without the Government having to incessantly tell people whats best for them.

when you get into a vehicle its different. with that laissez faire attitude why not repeal seat belt and drunk driving laws?

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Don't give me the crap about all seasons being fine. I had BRAND NEW all seasons on my brand new car, and last year on the first big dump of snow, had serious difficulty getting up some hills..

I brought this up earlier in the thread, auto makers in Canada put the same all season tires on their cars in the US and Canada without accounting for the huge difference in climate. There's a huge range in quality of all season tires; Some are rated almost as good as winters while others are absolute death traps on track tests under light and heavy snow conditions depending on price. Guess which ones auto makers are going to put on your new car to improve their margins.

My friend's brand new lancer had Dunlop 5000M's on them.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...jsp?type=UHPAS

While I agree that winter tires are superior to all seasons, it would help in the winter if people just learned to adapt to winter driving conditions better. It would also go a long way if the government stopped auto makers from putting sub-standard tires on new cars just to improve their bottom line.

[TylerSVT]

I dunno, i'm still all for Winter tires being mandated. It would suck and lots of people would bitch and complain about it but it would make driving FOR EVERYONE much safer.

I wish they would be mandated but reality will most likely not dictate that.

[speede5]

I have to chuckle at all the 'All Seasons are all a good driver needs' people on here. I understand that any reasonable driver can get around just fine on them, but that same driver is much better equipped using winter exclusive tires. Why wouldn't you? I agree no one should mandate you have to, but to ride your high horse and say they aren't a good tool is pretty silly.

I imagine all those same guys would use wood sticks because they work just fine and a good player doesn't need a composite to get the job done.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by speede5

I have to chuckle at all the 'All Seasons are all a good driver needs' people on here. I understand that any reasonable driver can get around just fine on them, but that same driver is much better equipped using winter exclusive tires. Why wouldn't you? I agree no one should mandate you have to, but to ride your high horse and say they aren't a good tool is pretty silly.

I imagine all those same guys would use wood sticks because they work just fine and a good player doesn't need a composite to get the job done.

The same driver driving 10 km/h below speed limit is probably safer too. The same driver trading in a 10 year old car for a brand new car with side air bags, AWD, traction control, new brakes, blind spot cameras and all of the safety technology innovations is also much better equipped. Why stop at winter tires?

Basically I'm trying to say there's a lot of things you can do to be much better equipped anywhere. But the investment vs. marginal benefit just doesn't make sense for winter tires here. They are a good tool, but it just isn't necessary. To me, using a sports analogy, they are like a $300 pair of basketball shoes compared to a $80 pair of basketball shoes. Although you will see a marginal benefit in the $300 pair (ie. My admission that they're better), they're not necessary for playing.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Basically I'm trying to say there's a lot of things you can do to be much better equipped anywhere. But the investment vs. marginal benefit just doesn't make sense for winter tires here. They are a good tool, but it just isn't necessary. To me, using a sports analogy, they are like a $300 pair of basketball shoes compared to a $80 pair of basketball shoes. Although you will see a marginal benefit in the $300 pair (ie. My admission that they're better), they're not necessary for playing.

For me the investment is worth it, I bought a second set of mag rims from a wrecker for 200$ with good summer tires on them, and have less the $500 invested in my winters. Traction is way better, and the roads get real slick around here as snow removal is not a priority. Having two sets your tires just last that much longer, so it's not like you are doubling your tire bill.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by speede5

I have to chuckle at all the 'All Seasons are all a good driver needs' people on here. I understand that any reasonable driver can get around just fine on them, but that same driver is much better equipped using winter exclusive tires. Why wouldn't you? I agree no one should mandate you have to, but to ride your high horse and say they aren't a good tool is pretty silly.

I imagine all those same guys would use wood sticks because they work just fine and a good player doesn't need a composite to get the job done.

I live in the core - I don't drive unless it's absolutely necessary.

Government mandated snow tires would a gigantic pain in the ass for me. Where am I supposed to store them? All seasons are good enough - I'm sure snow tires are better (if they weren't, there wouldn't be a market). But for the amount I drive, I can handle winter driving in Calgary on all seasons.

If the Government is going to mandate us to spend a lot of money on tires useful for only 4 months of the year, they then are sure as hell going to offer a rebate for those of us smart enough to reduce our commute to include no driving.

[photon]

For someone who doesn't want to store tires, you could do something like relaxing the requirement to tires that have the mountain/snowflake symbol:



I have Nokian WR G2's on my wife's car, so don't need to worry about changing them as they wear fine in the summer but still have the extra winter performance.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by photon

I have Nokian WR G2's on my wife's car, so don't need to worry about changing them as they wear fine in the summer but still have the extra winter performance.

Just quoting your post as an example, but I think that we are going to see more tire compounds that are suitable for both summer and winter. And by that, I mean actually suited for extreme cold days like today where most all seasons are like hockey pucks. Tread is one thing, but I think that it really comes down to the rubber compound and, like anything else, the technology is constantly improving.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by photon

I have Nokian WR G2's on my wife's car, so don't need to worry about changing them as they wear fine in the summer but still have the extra winter performance.

We put winters on my wife's car but I put those Nokian WR G2s on my Jimmy. Fantastic tire.